doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Yeah, ok bud, believe what you want. Good luck finding any statistical evidence to support that.Wow, even you're getting fired up. And not a whisper of sheep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88This Carle stuff tires me. The guy is guilty of being soft relative to his size. And for having a crappy shot. That's it.People who think he is "horrible" don't have a hot clue IMO. Those same people, once he was gone, would be whining about how slow the D are, how our D get beat to the puck, how poor our transition is etc, etc, etc and still argue vociferously how we don't miss Carle. The burden of proof lies with them not us. His stats, including the new fansy Corsi crap, indicate he is a valuable commodity. I've had more constructive conversations with Kuato about long snappers than some of this crap./rant 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88This Carle stuff tires me. The guy is guilty of being soft relative to his size. And for having a crappy shot. That's it.People who think he is "horrible" don't have a hot clue IMO. Those same people, once he was gone, would be whining about how slow the D are, how our D get beat to the puck, how poor our transition is etc, etc, etc and still argue vociferously how we don't miss Carle. The burden of proof lies with them not us. His stats, including the new fansy Corsi crap, indicate he is a valuable commodity. I've had more constructive conversations with Kuato about long snappers than some of this crap./rantVery well said. Post of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Carle is reported to test free agency. Anyone surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @doom88This Carle stuff tires me. The guy is guilty of being soft relative to his size. And for having a crappy shot. That's it.People who think he is "horrible" don't have a hot clue IMO. Those same people, once he was gone, would be whining about how slow the D are, how our D get beat to the puck, how poor our transition is etc, etc, etc and still argue vociferously how we don't miss Carle. The burden of proof lies with them not us. His stats, including the new fansy Corsi crap, indicate he is a valuable commodity. I've had more constructive conversations with Kuato about long snappers than some of this crap./rantYou forgot one other thing. He's also guilty of being too good to be had on the cheap. Damn him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Yeah, there's a guy on Twitter saying "sources" are texting that he's "gone"I still think he signs with Philly for $4.75M or something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKerrFan12 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Yeah, there's a guy on Twitter saying "sources" are texting that he's "gone"I still think he signs with Philly for $4.75M or something like thatI think we should let him walk and give Suter his money and add whatever extra Suter wants. Edited June 29, 2012 by TimKerrFan12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @TimKerrFan12I'm fine with that, except Suter will cost you an extra $3M. The resident capologists will have to weigh in on whether that is doable or not. I hear Suter has no interest in coming to Philly. Not sure where I heard that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think we should let him walk and give Suter his money and add whatever extra Suter wants.Why pay so much more for virtually the same player? The grass is not always greener... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKerrFan12 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @TimKerrFan12I'm fine with that, except Suter will cost you an extra $3M. The resident capologists will have to weigh in on whether that is doable or not. I hear Suter has no interest in coming to Philly. Not sure where I heard that though. Yeah it almost seems too obvious to actually do that. I think we could handle the extra 3 million, but then there is the problem of him wanting to play in Philly. If we have no chance at Suter then I think it is imperative we sign Carle. The hard part is trying to deal with Suter, but hope Carle doesn't start talking to teams and go elsewhere and then if we lose out on Suter we are screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKerrFan12 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Why pay so much more for virtually the same player? The grass is not always greener...Yes I understand that, but wouldn't u say Suter is a huge upgrade over Carle? Imo that is how I see it. I am not a big Carle hater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @TimKerrFan12It sounds like DET may be in the same situation. If they don't grab Suter, you can bet that Carle is their 2nd choice and they won't waste any time giving him $5M+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 per TSN also expecting Carle to get around 5 mill a yearPierre LeBrun: Matt Carle and Jason Garrison, in that order. Carle has flown under the radar because people in Philadelphia keep expecting he's going to re-sign. The dialogue continues with the Flyers but I think he's going to market. I think he's trying to command $5 million a year and he might get it on the open market. I think it's the same thing for Garrison, with $5 million being a key figure for him. He's not close to re-signing with the Florida Panthers, who could also trade his rights before July 1 if they can't get a deal done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Kris Letang is getting $3.5 mil a year... And he's much better than Wideman or Carle. Now I'm worried what will happen in '14 when his contract is up!!Letang needs to get a better agent.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @orange_crushSo Carle is gonna take $5M elsewhere instead of the $4.7M or whatever Homer offered? That kind of move is almost certain to equate to the worst kind of karma. I predict a massive career-ending concussion coming his way next year if he does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @Podein25I know getting traded is part of the business, but winning is instilled long before the first contract is ever awarded. Where am I going with this you may ask? Well, the way I see it, and I mean no disrespect to Holmgren and his cabinet, why should Carle sign below market value? If he signs long term below relative market value he may only be hurting himself. Say he inks 6 years at $4.75mm/year only to get moved to Columbus for younger players? That would be complete bunk and it kind of takes the winning thing out of the equations. I say he should sing where it fits best for the most reasonable price. As far as the "haters go", well that is very typical of the myopic faction of the Flyers' fan base. Some tend to forget our top pairing that included Rathje and Hatcher. Those days are long gone, thank you to the lockout, a really bad season, and a GM that knows how to address the current state of the game. Now we have a quick and mobile defense. I like Carle, sure he has his faults, but there isn't much waiting in the wings to replace him. For the money, pound for pound, I would take Carle over Suter. Now if there is some inside dope that I am missing regarding Shea Webber, then Carle is not that expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Letang needs to get a better agent..No doubt! As for some of the comments here Letang is a defensive ace. The guy's speed and skating mean he's always in position and an expert at forcing guys wide. Almost never gets burned. His only soft spot if you will is his size doesn't let him clear the crease too well if a forward is established there, but that's what Orpik is for...As for Carle... You guys will suffer if he signs elsewhere. He's a mobile position d man and gets his stick in shooting lanes well. He should've been a team priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Letang's speed almost always makes up for when he get's out of position trying to be an overly physical player, which he is not, he's not a sissy, but he's not built to be a bruiser there are times especially in atlantic division games where he's trying to really paste someone and gets burned. he's fine in his own end but he's no rob scuderi, now that guy is a defensive ace.if the flyers don't resign carle it will probably be because there is something better in the works. Carle is a fine player and i'm a fan/defender here, but if he seeks his fortune elsewhere our team will be fine, it may mean the forwards need to pay more attention to defensive hockey to make up for his skating but our ship is not sunk if he is no longer a flyer.I would not sign him at 5.5 & I would have to think really hard if he wants 5 a year, I think for that kind of money the player needs to be bullet proof, no weaknesses in their game and though Carle's shortcomings aren't fatal they do exist; his shot and inability or unwillingness to play through contact in his end, have proven costly. do his positives out weigh the shortcomings at 5 million a year for 4-6 years ? that is a difficult question to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'm sure he is a team priority but the team can only do so much. Carle and his agent see the market for D-men this summer and they must feel they're in a position of strength. Can't really blame them for wanting to see what FA brings their way... I just hope the Flyers have an existing offer for him that's at least $5mil/season. Five million a season is a significant "line in the sand" for NHL players - to make $5mil or more - and I bet Carle wants that.$4.75 probably won't cut it. It's not the 250 grand it's the bragging rights, the status that comes with making $5mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Yes I understand that, but wouldn't u say Suter is a huge upgrade over Carle? Imo that is how I see it. I am not a big Carle hater.I don't think there's any real evidence that Suter is a huge upgrade over Carle. Statistically they're close. And Suter has the benefit of playing on the same pair as Weber. If the situation was reversed, and Suter was a Flyer and Carle was with Nashville, my guess is that the same people who are now clamoring for Suter would be clamoring for Carle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If the situation was reversed, and Suter was a Flyer and Carle was with Nashville, my guess is that the same people who are now clamoring for Suter would be clamoring for Carle.Oh my...what a cynical viewpoint...I can't imagine why you'd think that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Letang is a very good defenseman as far as offense and skating are concerned, even a PP conduit, but I think his defense isn't that good. He's adequate, but it is the other (somewhat rare) skills make him valuable overall.Nobody can even come close to his diving ability...not even Malkin..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 @orange_crushSo Carle is gonna take $5M elsewhere instead of the $4.7M or whatever Homer offered? That kind of move is almost certain to equate to the worst kind of karma. I predict a massive career-ending concussion coming his way next year if he does it.Do you think you would have a better chance at winning the cup in Philly or Detroit and make more money? I would leave too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 No doubt! As for some of the comments here Letang is a defensive ace. The guy's speed and skating mean he's always in position and an expert at forcing guys wide. Almost never gets burned. His only soft spot if you will is his size doesn't let him clear the crease too well if a forward is established there, but that's what Orpik is for...As for Carle... You guys will suffer if he signs elsewhere. He's a mobile position d man and gets his stick in shooting lanes well. He should've been a team priority.Carle is being overrated , he can skate but he's a turnover machine and very passive..doesn't like physical contact at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't think there's any real evidence that Suter is a huge upgrade over Carle. Statistically they're close. And Suter has the benefit of playing on the same pair as Weber. If the situation was reversed, and Suter was a Flyer and Carle was with Nashville, my guess is that the same people who are now clamoring for Suter would be clamoring for Carle.I agree entirely. It's very frustrating. I wonder how many people actually saw more than a dozen Suter games last two seasons combined.I would give up to 5.5m for Carle (target 5m), but no more than 6m for Suter. Garrison 4m tops, ideally 3.5m. No deals longer than 5 yrs, Garrison 4 max.Limited NTC for Carle or Suter. Not sure if there is a no-waive limited NMC option (limit 15 teams for trading). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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