Travis Konecny extended 8 years @ 8.75 million / year

[CoachX]

21 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

If these things don't work out, then GM Scott Laughton will have quite a hole to dig out of. 

I never liked you

 

your name is going in my book

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

They had just traded for Ellis, who hadn't fallen apart in a Flyers uniform yet,

Has this been mentioned in the “shortest books written” thread?

 

if not……

[Fuzz]

On 8/7/2024 at 10:18 PM, CoachX said:

More of the same…. Overpay for a player who most likely won’t live up to the money he’s being paid, and secure it so you can’t move him

 

its the exact formula that ensures you won’t win a cup. The flyers have perfected this model. It’s the only thing they are consistently good at

I wish more fans would understand this.   It's the truth.

[mojo1917]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

I just don't think Couturier is a #1C and I don't think he was when they signed him

He was the best centerman on this team at that time.

I get all the other points you made, but he was our boy blue. 

 

@CoachX

I put that Laughton thing in just for you. 

[mojo1917]

From my seat in Pennsyltucky I think the Konecny contract destroys the dreams of the "tear down" crew.

It makes the execution of building the team the big 3 tell us they want more difficult.

For me it means guys like York, Ol' Foerster, Tippett, Farabee, and Brink are going to have to near or exceed their ceilings.

Michkov must hit.

Some of these also picked guys, the Carter Southerans, Denver Barkeys and Hunter MacDonalds will have to become decent NHL guys.

I don't think it's outlandish to think these things could happen. It just runs against the recent luck of the franchise. 

I also don't think the current roster is trash. 

I think there are good players there, a power play that isn't the worst in the league will improve the fortunes of the club.

The idea that a terrible San Jose team had a better power play by nearly 8% points with bad players, leads me to think that could be some low hanging fruit.

Signs point to 2026 for 'something' to happen.

 

 

 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He was the best centerman on this team at that time.

I get all the other points you made, but he was our boy blue. 

 

Which can very well be true - but is also a good argument for not signing a guy just because "he's the best we've got."

 

Being "the best centerman" on a team that has one playoff round win in a decade isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

I like the player. I didn't mind the contract at the time. It has not aged well and, much like Voracek, didn't need to be signed when it was.

 

The year before he signed 20-21, Couturier was the 71st scoring player in the league. Fourth on the Flyers.

 

I get that teams want to have "lifetime players" but if the Tampa Bay Lightning can walk away from Steven Stamkos after two Cups in four Finals appearances, the Flyers can at the very least consider walking away from guys who haven't accomplished anything in 10 years.

 

Spoiler alert: they won't.

 

[radoran]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

I also don't think the current roster is trash. 

I think there are good players there, a power play that isn't the worst in the league will improve the fortunes of the club.

 

Yep, expect them to "compete for a playoff spot" and pick somewhere in the middle of the first.

 

Again.

 

Another exciting round of Lather (First Round Loss)/Rinse (Miss the Playoffs)/Repeat (First Round Loss).

 

Took Ovechkin 13 years to get past the second round and that was with Backstrom, Carlson, Oshie, and a pre-marching-powder Kuznetsov...

 

Flyers have Couturier, Sanheim, Konecny, and Frost.

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

 

 

Flyers have Couturier, Sanheim, Konecny, and Frost.

 

 

You forgot Michkov...who Flyer management probably thinks puts them over the top! 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

6 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I think he's going to be much better this year.

 

I still don't think he's a #1C on a bona fide playoff competitor. Primarily because he's 31, coming off two back surgeries, hasn't played much of the past three years, and has never been a true #1C in his career.

 

I'll be happy if he "shuts me up."

 

I hope you don't think I was slagging you. Definitely not. I can live with people who doubt and provide a concrete argument. 

 

I'm talking about the "Couturier sucks" crowd and keep going on about his 38 points and his hernia as a sign he's done. 

 

If the Flyers had someone on the coaching staff who's smart (and I'm leaving Tortorella and Shaw off the list because their forte is developing defensemen), they'd point out that Couturier's game isn't built on speed or ridiculous skill. It's built on smarts, always being in the right place and always making the safe play. That's why he'll rebound this year. He knows his limitations. He knows what he can and can't do. He also knows where to be on the ice without saying anything and he knows where his teammates are. You can't teach that. It's why guys like him last. He's Michal Handzus, but with better hands and skating. 

 

As much as the game is built on speed, there will always be room for smart players who see the ice well and know where to be at all times. That's Couturier.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

Flyers have Couturier, Sanheim, Konecny and Frost

....and Foerster, Tippett, Farabee, York and Drysdale. Depth matters. What kills this club is a true lack of power play. Thompson is an idiot. It's doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to come up with a power play that works with the talent available. Good coaches find a way. Bad coaches just continually blame and never get held accountable. 

 

I'd bet that Mark Recchi could come in here and fix the power play. And it's not hard to fix it either. You have Frost play behind the net, you have Tippett in the slot, Farabee and Konecny on the wings and York plays the point. Or, you can have Tippett and York/Drysdale work the blueline. Tippett is the bomb from the point and Drysdale/York are the facilitators. You can still have your other three guys where they are and allow them to buzz around and drive the opposition nuts. 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You forgot Michkov...who Flyer management probably thinks puts them over the top! 

 

No, Michkov is the "Ovechkin" in this scenario. He's what they needed the #4 overall and a legit #1D and a competent 2nd line center to make it out of the first round and win a Stanley Cup 13 years into his career.

Edited August 9 by radoran

[radoran]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I hope you don't think I was slagging you. Definitely not. I can live with people who doubt and provide a concrete argument. 

 

I don't. And, thank you.

 

[radoran]

52 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

....and Foerster, Tippett, Farabee, York and Drysdale. Depth matters.

 

Sure, and Washington had a bunch of similar players. It's all how it pans out.

 

Like @mojo1917 said earlier, if everything pans out to the top of expectations then they have a chance...

[SCFlyguy]

All I care about is that the Flyers would be in a much better position today if they had traded Couturier at the deadline instead of resigning him.

[JR Ewing]

I can understand the frustration with Couturier because of the injury problems, but his salary never seemed like some horrendous over-pay to me... He's being paid about 9% of the cap, and there are 37 centres in the league with a higher cap percentage. That puts him in the range of being paid like a #2 even though he was shouldering a bigger portion of the load than is asked of a #2.

 

 

 

[JR Ewing]

1 minute ago, SCFlyguy said:

All I care about is that the Flyers would be in a much better position today if they had traded Couturier at the deadline instead of resigning him.

 

Sure, except that trade's not going to happen, because Couturier has a no-movement clause. If he was willing to move, the only teams he would be willing to go to don't have the cap space to take him, and the absolute best picks they could offer are in the 25-32 overall range.

 

[ruxpin]

41 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Sure, except that trade's not going to happen, because Couturier has a no-movement clause. If he was willing to move, the only teams he would be willing to go to don't have the cap space to take him, and the absolute best picks they could offer are in the 25-32 overall range.

 

 

Su, you're saying there's a chance?

[radoran]

3 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

I can understand the frustration with Couturier because of the injury problems, but his salary never seemed like some horrendous over-pay to me... He's being paid about 9% of the cap, and there are 37 centres in the league with a higher cap percentage. That puts him in the range of being paid like a #2 even though he was shouldering a bigger portion of the load than is asked of a #2.

 

It's - again - that they signed a guy a year early and it didn't work out.

 

I'm fine with the player. His contract is great for his value - if he can be the player he was.

 

But a "might be a good recovery player" at 31 signed long term at $7M+ as your purportive #1C on a team with playoff aspirations (*ahem*) I just don't see it.

 

Of course I was one of the Cassandras saying the VeeGees didn't have the goods to compete with duos in their own division much less the league and see where that got me.

 

I've learned my lesson.

 

[GratefulFlyers]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:51 AM, hmc687 said:

I dont like it but fair value...year or two too long

 

Well a 27 year old All-Star coming off back-to-back 30+ goal seasons has a fair bit of leverage. Next summer UFA Konecny was sure to get 7-year offers with a higher AAV (barring an awful 24-25). As it is both sides made a good deal and they got it done early, which I'm sure everyone appreciated.

 

As for the philosophy, re-signing TK instead of trading him...whole 'nother conversation...

 

My tl;dr:

• If the Flyers were rebuilding to focus primarily on the draft, trading TK makes sense. Teams at that stage can never have too many picks.
• Since they're not prioritizing high picks there's no point (no need) trading away the team's best player.
• It is what it is, not a rebuild more like a refurb; the Flyers need TK now more than ever.

plus ...

• Guaranteed Konecny would've done more damage than all the ex-Flyers combined. The shorties alone would've been too much to take.

[GratefulFlyers]

16 hours ago, radoran said:

Primarily because he's 31, coming off two back surgeries, hasn't played much of the past three years, and has never been a true #1C in his career.

 

Well sure if you wanna nitpick... 

[SCFlyguy]

11 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Sure, except that trade's not going to happen, because Couturier has a no-movement clause. If he was willing to move, the only teams he would be willing to go to don't have the cap space to take him, and the absolute best picks they could offer are in the 25-32 overall range.

 

Sorry I wasn't clear.  I was advocating on this board for Couturier to be traded in 2021 before he signed his big extension.

[flyer4ever]

IMHO, the contracts for TK and Coots are all about perspective. The dysfunctional hockey ops in Flyerland over valued both these players because they haven't had a true 1st line player in a long time as a comparable, (other than Giroux) and they think they have have to pay their top guys top guy money. 

I don't believe any GM past or present league wide would have offered either of these contracts, other than the 2 who did.

It's all about asset management and the Flyers continually fail at it. 

[SCFlyguy]

Yeah, their problem for years is paying players for what they need them to be rather than what they are.

Edited August 11 by SCFlyguy

[radoran]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

Yeah, their problem for years is paying players for what they need them to be rather than what they are.

 

What they WANT them to be.

 

They spent a decade trying to prove that they won the trades.

 

They have built the foundation of a "New Era of Orange" on three players who have been here for at least half - if not all - of that time and have told us there is NO ONE ELSE who could have done it.

 

They WANT this to be a "New Era of Orange" and therefore anything they do is by definition in service of that end.

 

It's not a problem until you are locking up significant chunks of cap space for significant amounts of time where betting on the wrong horse has significant long term impacts.

 

[flyer4ever]

12 hours ago, radoran said:

 

What they WANT them to be.

 

They spent a decade trying to prove that they won the trades.

 

They have built the foundation of a "New Era of Orange" on three players who have been here for at least half - if not all - of that time and have told us there is NO ONE ELSE who could have done it.

 

They WANT this to be a "New Era of Orange" and therefore anything they do is by definition in service of that end.

 

It's not a problem until you are locking up significant chunks of cap space for significant amounts of time where betting on the wrong horse has significant long term impacts.

 

There is a great cover of When The Levee Breaks on Youtube. Playing For Change.