Five Big Questions for 2024-25: A Mid-Summer Take

[JR Ewing]

32 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

No, both teams goaltending sucked,  but our goalie gave up the cheapest Cup clinching goal in NHL history. 

 

It seemed like Patrick Kane was the only person in the world who even saw the puck go in the net. I was stunned. Yeah... It has to be the worst Cup-winning goal I can remember.

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

The goaltending in the 2010 Finals was a hell of a thing. It seemed like none of the goalies on either team knew how to make a save consistently.

 

Except Ray Emery but he went down in December with his hip issues and they had to wing it with patchwork the rest of the year.

 

 

Edited July 26 by OccamsRazor
Stupid phone!!!

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

The goaltending in the 2010 Finals was a hell of a thing. It seemed like none of the goalies on either team knew how to make a save consistently.

 

It was the worst goaltender I've ever seen in the finals versus the 2nd worst. Of course, we had the worst. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 7/22/2024 at 7:27 PM, flyer4ever said:

PP doesn't have the tools in the tool box. It's a few years away.

See, I don't buy that argument. There were worse teams with a better power play than the Flyers. Hell, San Jose had a better power play and their personnel was significantly worse than the Flyers. 

[OccamsRazor]

33 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

See, I don't buy that argument. There were worse teams with a better power play than the Flyers. Hell, San Jose had a better power play and their personnel was significantly worse than the Flyers. 

 

they sorely miss an identity - if Matvei must be that guy i just hope he is up for the task.

 

they get their swagger who knows how good they can truly be.

 

so many questions more than we have answers for.

 

one thing for sure it is time to get Emil Andrea go into his pro career further.

 

can he QB a powerplay unit? can't call without seeing him play but if he could it would be huge.

 

one huge help to the whole team is Sanheim building on his game to come into a more stable force.

 

if goaltending can hold up they have a chance of just squeaking into the playoffs if MM gets that 2nd line a constant scoring threat to have to account for.

[mkscrewy]

On 7/26/2024 at 10:35 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Except Ray Emery but he went down in December with his hip issues and they had to wing it with patchwork the rest of the year.

 

 

If only we had ray that series. I wouldn’t have had to kill myself. 

[GratefulFlyers]

Thanks @Howie58 interesting questions...

 

1) PP can't get any worse. Even if it drops to 1% we won't notice the difference. Last year Rocky "Balboa" Thompson focused on a QB and until he found one apparently the PP could just wait, as if all other options were off the table. Just dumb. Why he gets another year to run it is beyond me.

 

2) Couturier's value is high in the intangibles column, which is good. Not as good as scoring goals but I expect Couturier will improve production-wise next year ... provided Tortorella doesn't play him 20+ mins for 4-1/2 months straight. Chalk up another "just dumb" from the coaching staff.

 

3) I like Ersson the way I liked Bobrovsky way back when (talk about "just dumb" coaching...Laviolette). We'll know Ersson better once he gets past ~30 starts. At that point the Flyers will either have a good starter or a good backup. I don't see Ersson/Fedotov taking the Flyers very far.

Paging Alexei Kolosov...is this number still in service?

 

4) Drysdale has to play a full season. Until he does he's a question mark w/out an answer. Cam York should be even better next year. If he is the Flyers have their #1 D-man. What he lacks in size - 6'0" 197lbs - he makes up for in brains and poise. He's only 23, has 2 more years on a $1.6mil cap hit. Talk about ROI the Flyers struck gold with Cam York.

 

5) BIG surprises? I don't think so but I'd love to see Tippet, TK maybe Foerster too all have 30 goals by the TD. A working PP would help. Michkov already surprised us getting out of Russia; whatever he does this season is fine by me. If he stays stays healthy, makes a few friends on the team that's a huge win for the Flyers. I feel sure Tortorella has been told in no uncertain terms not to mess with him.

 

6) Big trades? Couturier (with the understanding he's got a job for life with the Flyers when he retires). Ristolainen for anyone ASAP, retain 50% just do it.

 

Joel Farabee is a talented 2-way scoring forward, perfect for a rebuilding team that isn't rebuilding (Flyers' fans understand). A 50-pt season last year should be a down year for him not his career high so far but he's been in Tortorella's doghouse. If they don't patch things up he has to be traded.

 

I assume it's Tortorella being Tortorella but who knows. Farabee is 24, has 3 more years on a $5mil cap hit. There will be plenty of interest. Farabee has a ton of untapped potential. If he's not traded it most likely means he and Tortorella figured it out, which would be a Very Good Thing.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

18 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

PP can't get any worse.

 

A dose of Matvei and Emil can add some much needed punch to their skillset.

 

Unleash them.

 

He'll have his mom and brother with him soon if not already. Not sure if he is over yet with him below.

 

 

My daughter is already swooning over MM and Cooper Dejean.

 

I have to admit they are two handsome young men and if she brought them home i would be impressed!!!

 

Ladies in Philly have their claws into these young men if their clubs don't watch them.

 

lol. No more Dry Island please.

 

I'm just having my coffee i'll have to think on the rest of the day about the rest.

 

Looking forward to watching this Eagles/Patriots preseason game grilling and sippin in a few just enjoying this beautiful weather today. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15 by OccamsRazor

[GratefulFlyers]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

A dose of Matvei and Emil

 

I'm looking forward to seeing Andrae with the Flyers...Attard, Ginning, Zamula all have more size but Andrae seems like the tougher competitor... I haven't watched much of him  just going by the few Phantoms' games I saw last season and YT videos.

 

Matvei? Oh right the Russian kid everybody's raving about, supposed to be such hot stuff... 

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

A dose of Matvei and Emil can add some much needed punch to their skillset.

 

Unleash them.

 

Not just unleash Matvei and Emil. Unleash them all. There's some skill in the lineup, but the head coach insists that the only way this club can win is by grinding and scoring by committee. Let the reins loose and let the boys go. 

[radoran]

19 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Chalk up another "just dumb" from the coaching staff.

 

If the goal was to make the playoffs - and, don't mistake it, after some early success it was - then Tortorella had to get 110% out of everyone on the team for 162 games.

 

And that meant Captain Inevitable had to be healthy and productive. Which he was - for a while.

 

You're just not going to get 110% all season from a guy who hadn't been on the ice for a year and a half.

 

Realistic expectations should be followed here, not "if everything breaks our way..."

 

31 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Matvei? Oh right the Russian kid everybody's raving about, supposed to be such hot stuff... 

 

He could be the next Ovechkin!

 

It just took Ovechkin 13 years to get out of the second round and win his *checks notes* one Cup.

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Not just unleash Matvei and Emil. Unleash them all. There's some skill in the lineup, but the head coach insists that the only way this club can win is by grinding and scoring by committee. Let the reins loose and let the boys go. 

 

Mark Recchi would have been an improvement than the stiff they have now...

[Cheesesteak]

23 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I assume it's Tortorella being Tortorella but who knows. Farabee is 24, has 3 more years on a $5mil cap hit. There will be plenty of interest. Farabee has a ton of untapped potential. If he's not traded it most likely means he and Tortorella figured it out, which would be a Very Good Thing.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Mark Recchi would have been an improvement than the stiff they have now...

Yep. That's a nice that would have made too much sense. Even with a much worse roster in Columbus, they finished with a better power play than the Flyers. However, don't tell the brain trust that. They'll tell you that the cement head Rocky Thompson is really trying to fix things and that collaboration with LeClair and Sharpe will fix it.

[GratefulFlyers]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

Tortorella had to get 110% out of everyone on the team for 162 games.

 

Thinking Phils there for a sec?

 

Anyway ... Yes. Requiring 100% is good coaching it's the 100 and 10% part that gets a coach in trouble. Sure it's just an expression but to the extent Tortorella demands the impossible it's a good metaphor for his style. It doesn't apply to his teams as a whole though that's just Dubinsky talking. Tortorella's messed with players over the years and I'm sure it got personal sometimes. But overworking teams to the point where they're spent before the POs? Poppycock!  Fiddlesticks!  Hokum!  Blatherskite!

[radoran]

3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Thinking Phils there for a sec?

 

No, just amplifying the absurdity of his approach.

 

If you don't have the horses, then leaning on the ones you have to the extent that they utterly collapse before the finish line doesn't make much sense.

 

But WRT The Phillies, I told my (relatively new to baseball) wife as they were on a tear at the start of the season that you don't want to be red hot in April and May. You need to be red hot in September and October.

 

There is a "playoff hockey" gear that players have. But it's for short bursts. You can't hold it down or you break the ship.

 

It's all a part of "rebuilding the culture" that was somehow lost under the longest tenured captain in the history of the franchise and can only be solved by three guys who were here when it happened.

 

[mojo1917]

19 hours ago, radoran said:

It's all a part of "rebuilding the culture" that was somehow lost under the longest tenured captain in the history of the franchise and can only be solved by three guys who were here when it happened.

I don't think this is a dead solid lock indictment of 21, 14 and 11 or the Flyers.

 

Maybe those 3 players chaffed at the state of things but were not in a position to make the change.

This is now their chance to do things they way they want to, maybe have wanted to for years.

[radoran]

9 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't think this is a dead solid lock indictment of 21, 14 and 11 or the Flyers.

 

Couturier was wearing an A since 2018...

Moreover, who instilled what it means to be a Flyer in these guys while the entire organization was apparently bereft of any sign of it?

 

The whole line is just that - a line.

 

I'm fine with Couturier - as a transitional figure bridging to a new era.

 

I'm fine with Konecny - representing something to build on for the future.

 

I'm fine with Laughton, as the next Pierre Edouard-Bellmare.

 

But those are three guys at radically different places in their career trajectory.

 

Maybe they can get Couturier back to the point that they're a playoff team.

 

What's the trajectory beyond that?

 

Michkov plays the same position as Konecny. And Tippett.

 

How many goals can you get from the RW with no C?

 

And we can say "Frost" when he's a breakout star in November.

 

Happy to see it.

 

[GratefulFlyers]

On 8/15/2024 at 7:12 PM, radoran said:

and can only be solved by three guys who were here when it happened.

 

Very clever taking Briere's principal goal and condemning him and the organization with it. I don't see any substantive value in it though since there's no evidence Briere has pinned his hopes for a Flyers' culture shift on TK, Laughton and Couturier.

 

You state it like it's common knowledge but I've heard no one suggest this is the case. "They have letters on their sweaters" isn't persuasive. Obviously captains and assistants are leaders but they can't decree a team's personality.

 

You said you like the 3 players, enough anyway. So your argument is they carry too much stink from the Giroux years, which disqualifies them from helping to turn things around now. I don't think that's true but I am starting to think a "clean sweep" might've been better...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

You said you like the 3 players, enough anyway. So your argument is they carry too much stink from the Giroux years, which disqualifies them from helping to turn things around now. I don't think that's true but I am starting to think a "clean sweep" might've been better...

 

Nothing I said was wrong, was it?

 

I don't WANT the Flyers to be where they are. I have had NOTHING to do with it.

 

They are where they are based on the decisions they have made and continue to make.

 

I don't get ANYTHING for "being right" - I'm making observations based upon the FOUR DECADES I've been watching hockey.

 

Especially focused upon the post-lockout era where the owners ABSOLUTELY INSISTED upon a salary regime that they ALL immediately tried to circumvent and one of the architects of the "OMG must ideologically control sports salaries" was chief among them.

 

This organization is the poster child for not adapting to the post lockout era that THEY insisted upon.

 

And they keep making the same mistakes.

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

And they keep making the same mistakes.

 

 

Yaaa, but THIS time those same mistakes are going to bring us the cup! 

[GratefulFlyers]

On 8/20/2024 at 12:45 AM, radoran said:

Nothing I said was wrong, was it?

 

Yes and I gave you my reasons for disagreeing with you.

 

On 8/20/2024 at 12:45 AM, radoran said:

I don't get ANYTHING for "being right"

 

Except you're not right. But you're not wrong either. You ignored my counterargument altogether.

 

I'd still like to hear a rebuttal if you have one. If you draw a blank don't feel bad it was a clever line. You can be right about that ... 

 

re: the argument you did make I agree to this extent: the Flyers will likely need a major course correction before they can become Cup contenders. And I'm sorry to say that correction is nowhere in sight ... it's not always easy being right!

 

Edited August 21 by GratefulFlyers

[radoran]

25 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Except you're not right. But you're not wrong either. You ignored my counterargument altogether.

 

So, my argument is that IF the entirety of Flyer Culture had been absolutely destroyed and had to be rebuilt from the ground up - which is the organization's line - THEN "rebuilding" it around three guys who were here when it happened is a ridiculous way to proceed.

 

Which is why "Flyer culture" HADN'T been completely and utterly annihilated.

 

To your counter...

 

On 8/19/2024 at 8:00 PM, GratefulFlyers said:

there's no evidence Briere has pinned his hopes for a Flyers' culture shift on TK, Laughton and Couturier.

 

Except Briere's own lying mouth.

 

"Travis Konecny is an integral part of the fabric of our team and we are thrilled to have him under contract for the long-term," said Brière. "Travis has grown into a significant leader on our team and he truly embodies what it means to be a Flyer."

 

"I wasn’t going to trade [Laughton] for fair value, because he’s more than fair value to us — the intangibles that he brings in the locker room (are) something that has no price, and the other teams don’t see that,” Briere said.

 

"Sean Couturier is an ideal choice to be the next leader of the Philadelphia Flyers," said Briere. "Sean was drafted here and has made Philadelphia his home. I have personally seen his development from a responsible forward to one of the best two-way centermen in the game and a playoff performer. The adversity he has had to overcome has only strengthened his proven leadership. In this New Era of Orange with Dan Hilferty, Keith Jones and John Tortorella at the helm, we couldn't be more proud to call him captain."

 

If giving those three guys letters and saying those things about them is not "pinning his hopes for a Flyers' culture shift on TK, Laughton, and Couturier" I don't really know what would be.

 

This is the important/relevant part of the post:

 

On 8/20/2024 at 12:45 AM, radoran said:

This organization is the poster child for not adapting to the post lockout era that THEY insisted upon.

 

And they keep making the same mistakes.

 

Again, it's more of the marketing brouhaha of the New Era of Orange in which not terribly much is "new".

 

The "New Era" is doing things the same way the Old Era did, just justifying them in different language.

 

And expecting different results.

Edited August 21 by radoran

[GratefulFlyers]

@radoran Thanks for elaborating.

 

Now I understand ... what I should've said was, "there's no evidence ... solely on TK, Laughton and Couturier." It does sound to me like you believe Briere is depending on those 3 and only those 3. I read the quotes you pulled from Briere. Is it surprising he expects his veterans to lead the way?

 

But regardless what Briere thinks, who he's depending on, etc. ... the broader point you make...

 

On 8/21/2024 at 3:00 PM, radoran said:

Which is why "Flyer culture" HADN'T been completely and utterly annihilated.

 

is clearly true I'm just not sure it has much, if anything, to do with the players.

 

New president, new GM, new whatever Hilferty is but the direction feels mostly ... same as it ever was / same as it ever was.

 

Still, I don't share all the doom around here because of this, just enough to wonder whether it precludes the Flyers from ever winning another Cup in my lifetime. Hey they can always stumble into another 2010, "lightning in a bottle" run someday...right?

 

Edited August 22 by GratefulFlyers

[radoran]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

It does sound to me like you believe Briere is depending on those 3 and only those 3. I read the quotes you pulled from Briere. Is it surprising he expects his veterans to lead the way?

 

Not at all. Again, the point here is that all of the bluster about "needing" to "rebuild" the culture is all nonsense. It's simply justification to do what they wanted to do all along and that's extend the three of them and build the mediocre bubble playoff team that they rebuilt around them.

 

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Still, I don't share all the doom around here because of this, just enough to wonder whether it precludes the Flyers from ever winning another Cup in my lifetime. I guess it'll have to be another 2010, "lightning in a bottle" run.

 

It took Ovechkin 13 years to win a Cup and he had Backstrom as his center (and then pre-marching powder Kuznetsov).

 

Michkov has... *checks notes* Sean Couturier and Morgan Frost.

 

Look, it could happen that Buffalo drafts another Jack Eichel and screws that up and the Flyers can trade for him. Not that I like Eichel, but that's essentially what we're left hoping for: A Top Pick player who's either unhappy, in a conflict, or another team has lost faith in that the Flyers can swoop in and grab.

 

Oh, and they lost 2010. Fun run, sure.

 

The Flyers have eight playoff round wins since the lockout. That's twenty years next season. What have they done that gives any indication that this is about to change?

 

When I spent ten years saying that Giroux and Voracek weren't as good as other duos in their division much less the Conference to say nothing of the League, it wasn't because I wanted to be right. It's because I was.

 

So I'll say this: the Flyers aren't winning a Stanley Cup with Couturier/Konecny/Laughton as their C/A/A leadership group. They'll be lucky to win a round.

 

Because they're not as good as other teams in their division to say nothing of the Conference, to say nothing of the League.

 

Happy to be wrong.

 

Edited August 22 by radoran