ruxpin Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 14 hours ago, CoachX said: Yep. And I have the solution…. Stop watching. It works. I’m still a Flyers fan. I still have the fond memories of another time. And now I feel like, even though they don’t care, that I’m rebelling against Flyers management. They get nothing from me. I don’t have to take their crap and put up with their mediocre attempts to run a higher Cheyenne franchise. I did the same thing with the Phillies for a long time. When they got their **** together, I tuned back and I’m totally invested, and happy i just don’t have to endure the stress 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 14 hours ago, CoachX said: Yep. And I have the solution…. Stop watching. It works. I’m still a Flyers fan. I still have the fond memories of another time. And now I feel like, even though they don’t care, that I’m rebelling against Flyers management. They get nothing from me. I don’t have to take their crap and put up with their mediocre attempts to run a higher Cheyenne franchise. I did the same thing with the Phillies for a long time. When they got their **** together, I tuned back and I’m totally invested, and happy i just don’t have to endure the stress Not directed at you Coach ...... directed at Flyers Management ..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 7/11/2024 at 1:42 PM, mojo1917 said: I don't think I've seen a big bone-head move yet. He hasn't traded Laughton- is that it? Since Michkov is here early, Scott may not get traded because of his role in the locker room. I heard a very interesting take about this on PHLY yesterday. Michkov isn't easy and Laughton is the guy everyone can relate to, he may never leave and if his presence helps Michkov not kill Travis Sanhiem because he flubbed a set up. That's a win. The Laughton discussion is around 13:00 in. There hasn't been a shell of Vinnie Lecalivaier signing, there wasn't a JvR for Luke Schenn trade. So far, he'd drafted okay. I mean we won't know for a while. As Rad says they aren't forcing anyone into the NHL before they're ready. He's signed a couple of low-cost dudes to make the team more fun to watch. I don't see where Danny is failing, or more of the same. Okay, he didn't go scorched earth to move up to #4 is that the failing? He couldn't move back to 16 and take Luchenko because teams at 14 and 15 were reportedly interested. So he took a guy 4 or 5 spots early? Yep, every bit as bad as Fletcher. He has done no harm, gathered assets; I would call 6 picks in the top 64 next year significant. But, no they're arrogant and same old same old. the prospect obsession is crazy, i mean we have enough youth on this roster that we could a 500 or better team and yet everyone is worried about 2024 draft picks that may or may not pan out in 5 years and think that Luchenko,Helenius, or Buim away from winning a stanley cup like that's crazy because those guys will probably not make major impact and thing is at some point, you have to take the next step while we have the young players on their elcs, just waiting for more prospects to pan out is wasting the youth and talent right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: the prospect obsession is crazy, i mean we have enough youth on this roster that we could a 500 or better team and yet everyone is worried about 2024 draft picks that may or may not pan out in 5 years and think that Luchenko,Helenius, or Buim away from winning a stanley cup like that's crazy because those guys will probably not make major impact and thing is at some point, you have to take the next step while we have the young players on their elcs, just waiting for more prospects to pan out is wasting the youth and talent right now. YES! Lets not get anymore talent...let's start our Stanley Cup Run RIGHT NOW! Name one person who thinks we're one player away from contending... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthbal Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 On 7/13/2024 at 9:52 AM, CoachX said: I’m of the opinion that if Risto has a good first half, with improvement, he could be dealt at the deadline, regardless of his contract There were talks last Trad Deadline that he was going to get moved. What prevented a move was the fact that he was injured and the uncertainty of when he would return. So, I would add to your statement that he needs to stay healthy for a trade to be made. And who knows, if he is healthy, he may gat moved before the deadline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 6 hours ago, darthbal said: There were talks last Trad Deadline that he was going to get moved. What prevented a move was the fact that he was injured and the uncertainty of when he would return. So, I would add to your statement that he needs to stay healthy for a trade to be made. And who knows, if he is healthy, he may gat moved before the deadline He's a head injury away from being the next GM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 On 8/16/2024 at 7:18 AM, flyer4ever said: He's a head injury away from being the next GM. Classic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmc687 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 On 7/11/2024 at 11:18 AM, RonJeremy said: It's gonna take a few years to see if Briere is a good GM or not, but here is a few things we use to gauge if he is another Hextall. We chose Gauthier over Jiricek, we had no way of knowing Gauthier would not want to play in Philly but even if Gauthier stayed, we have to see who turns out to be the better player to know which was the right pick. Danny chose Michkov which according to most experts was a great pick. He chose Oliver Bonk over Gabe Perrault, who was considered a better prospect. He went against the general consensus and picked Luchenko over Helenius and Buim who were rated much higher. So in several cases we went against the draft experts and reached a little. Now we have to see if its better to go with the consensus or if the Flyers scouts/GM are geniuses. If Buim turns into Brian Leetch and Luchenko turns into Tom Gorence , all speed and no hands,then we know the answer. I recall two past instances where we reached and picked a guy way earlier than he was rated, that was Forsbeg and Morin. One was a star the other a flop, so only time will tell. Briere also made one big hockey trade, Gauthier for Drysdale, his hands were somewhat tied and he traded for an injury prone one dimensional defensemen. I hope Drysdale develops into a top three dman and puts up big points but I have doubts .So within three years we will know if Briere was the right guy for the job. Drafts are tough. There's a reason why people get it wrong so often. Neither Hischier or Patrick were drafted ahead of Makar, EP, and Heiskanen and they were unanimously 1 and 2. Provorov went ahead of Barzal, Mikko Rantanen, Chabot, and Kyle Connor and Provorov was considered a GOOD pick. Matt Tkachuk went behind Laine, Puljujarvi, PLD, and Juolevi. Kaapo Kakko was taken #2 ahead of his entire draft class. There are endless examples of "poor drafts" and its definitely not just a Philly thing. For me, the difference w Philly is probably DEVELOPMENT. The last time the Phantoms won the Calder Cup (to my knowledge) was w Richards, Carter, and Patrick Sharp. Giroux joined that team AFTER they won the cup but was still part of that success run. Where's the development? I understand that the game has changed and many young players are having success sooner since hitting/fighting are being canceled/removed, but thats usually a Top 5-10 thing. My critique for the Flyers is they have poorly managed the PHANTOMS and, with all due respect, Ian Laperriere has proven to be an AWFUL assitant coach w the Flyers. Not expecting much as the head coach of our future prospects 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 16 minutes ago, hmc687 said: Neither Hischier or Patrick were drafted ahead of Makar, EP, and Heiskanen and they were unanimously 1 and 2. You are not totally wrong but there were signs on the wall that were ignored with Nolan Patrick. from and article by Charlie O'Connor of the The Athletic ...... Lesson No. 1: Listen to the scouts It had been rumored and reported for years that the Flyers’ scouting department wasn’t exactly fully on board with the Patrick pick on draft day in 2017. But it was Flyers senior adviser (and franchise legend) Bob Clarke who removed any doubts that there was legitimate contention in the room that day, famously claiming on the The Cam & Strick Podcast that “none of our scouts wanted Patrick” and strongly implying that if the scouts had their way, the selection would have been Makar, who of course was en route to his first Norris Trophy and a Conn Smythe for added measure. It has long been speculated that the the scouts wanted either Makar or Heiskanen. How different would have this franchise looked if they drafted Makar. Lesson No. 2: Don’t obsess over positional needs One big reason why Hextall ultimately went with Patrick over either of the two defensemen available? There was almost certainly an element of “tie goes to the positional need.” The Flyers had taken Travis Sanheim with a first-round pick in 2014 and Ivan Provorov with the No. 7 pick in 2015. Shayne Gostisbehere was just one year removed from a magical rookie season. Samuel Morin was still viewed as a viable (if slow-developing) prospect. Hextall understandably looked at his blue line pipeline and felt it wasn’t nearly in need of the kind of boost that the organization required down the middle. Thus, Patrick, the center, was taken over Heiskanen and Makar. And look what happened. The takeaway? Especially at the top of the draft, don’t worry about positional need. Yes, the Flyers are weak organizationally down the middle, and beyond Ronnie Attard, don’t have much in the way of viable RHD prospects. But that really shouldn’t influence their decision. In the end, the Flyers desperately need top-end talent — at every single position. Lesson No. 3: Don’t ignore injury concerns In Patrick’s defense, injuries played a large role in his inability to live up to his lofty draft slot in Philadelphia. His rookie season was hindered by an abdominal surgery from the previous summer, and he didn’t start flashing his (apparent) potential until the second half of 2017-18. Then, a migraine disorder torpedoed his 2019-20 campaign before it even began, and he’s yet to fully get his career back on track. Some of that is just plain old bad luck. That said, Patrick did have an injury history heading into the draft. The Flyers picked him anyway. In retrospect, that probably wasn’t the best call. Lesson No. 4: Take big swings It’s not that in 2017 Patrick was perceived to have a low ceiling. Players with low ceiling don’t get taken in the top five. He was viewed as a potential do-it-all, all-around right-handed 1C, and those are worth their weight in gold around the NHL. But there was a general perception in league circles that Patrick lacked superstar potential. On the other hand, Makar was viewed as more of a boom-or-bust prospect due to his elite physical tools in tandem with low level of competition (AJHL). His biggest fans saw him as the next Erik Karlsson, a true game-changer on defense, while skeptics wondered if his game would translate even to the collegiate level in all its creativity and pace. That said, in order to acquire stars — unless a team lucks into the top pick in a draft with a generational talent — risks must be taken on draft day. Otherwise, teams end up filled with two-way middle-sixers and solid second pair defensemen. Sure, it might result in the occasional high-profile bust. But as the Flyers were reminded with Patrick, even supposedly “safe” prospects can bust. At the top of the draft, the goal should be to come away with a true game-changer, even if it means taking something of a leap of faith. 26 minutes ago, hmc687 said: For me, the difference w Philly is probably DEVELOPMENT. You are not wrong here and a vast majority of us on here agree with this statement. The Flyers simply do NOT know how to develop players and it shows ..... 27 minutes ago, hmc687 said: My critique for the Flyers is they have poorly managed the PHANTOMS and, with all due respect, Ian Laperriere has proven to be an AWFUL assitant coach w the Flyers. Not expecting much as the head coach of our future prospects Winner..winner..chicken dinner..... Absolutely agree 100% with this statement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 The idea that there are reporters covering this team that still buy the "scouts wanted Makar" line is why the organization gets away with being perpetually mediocre. If they put half the effort they put into marketing slogans and explanations for why they're still the middling bubble playoff team they were "rebuilding" into actually building a team they might have gotten past the first round more than once in 10 years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Don't ignore the Brandon connection with Hextall. (Patrick, Provorov) Kinda like the Minnesota thing with the chucktard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 4 hours ago, flyer4ever said: Don't ignore the Brandon connection with Hextall. (Patrick, Provorov) Kinda like the Minnesota thing with the chucktard. True, he might have had a bias towards picking the playoffs MVP of the WHL champions. Edited August 22 by radoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 hours ago, radoran said: True, he might have had a bias towards picking the playoffs MVP of the WHL champions. And consensus top 2 pick. But Clarke (from Flin Flon Manitoba) wouldn't have wanted a guy who played for Brandon, Manitoba. He wanted the type of defenceman he's never wanted before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: And consensus top 2 pick. You're only saying that because he was ranked the #1 North American skater by NHL Central Scouting. If Patrick doesn't come down with the migraine disorder and panned out as the #1C they thought they were getting 100% Clarke says he was the guy they wanted all along. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 4 hours ago, radoran said: You're only saying that because he was ranked the #1 North American skater by NHL Central Scouting. If Patrick doesn't come down with the migraine disorder and panned out as the #1C they thought they were getting 100% Clarke says he was the guy they wanted all along. When I looked at Patrick, I didn't see any high end, standout skill in any area like skating ,stick handling or shooting. Did any of you see him in juniors? Was he just hyped up like Mike Ricci another station wagon we drafted or was his skill top notch? Maybe he was just a typical Flyer pick, good away from the puck, two way player, the reliable station wagon, who became the Griswald Family Truckster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 27 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: When I looked at Patrick, I didn't see any high end, standout skill in any area like skating ,stick handling or shooting. Did any of you see him in juniors? Was he just hyped up like Mike Ricci another station wagon we drafted or was his skill top notch? Maybe he was just a typical Flyer pick, good away from the puck, two way player, the reliable station wagon, who became the Griswald Family Truckster. The NHL Central Scouting had him ranked #1 overall North American skater. Dan Marr (head of Central Scouting, in charge of 29 other scouts) stated "He has more than proven over the last three years that he is the real deal and he will be an impact NHL player". https://www.primetimesport.ca/dan-marr-2/ I'm pretty sure NHL Central Scouting watches tape, goes to games, etc. In the end, it's really a pointless discussion beyond displaying again how craven and self-serving Robert E Clarke is as an old man. He would point out that Russ Farwell took Ricci over Jagr, though. And that no one involved in that Ricci pick is still with the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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