SCFlyguy Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Quote Briere: "We're a little different. You gotta build a team to what your fanbase wants." This is such a great summary and indictment of everything wrong with the Flyers for 20 years. The idea that the organization is special and doesn't have to play by the same rules as every other franchise. They will keep thinking that and keep watching as other teams pass them on the way down and then pass them on the way back up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Bill Meltzer Flyers Move to Terminate Ryan Johansen's Contract More news at 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/20/2024 at 7:27 AM, SCFlyguy said: Quote Briere: "We're a little different. You gotta build a team to what your fanbase wants." What if your fanbase is largely comprised of morons from a small city in Arizona circle-jerking on Facebook? And corporate schlepps only there for some drinks and some ambience in a quiet setting where there's rarely any sustained noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/20/2024 at 7:27 AM, SCFlyguy said: This is such a great summary and indictment of everything wrong with the Flyers for 20 years. The idea that the organization is special and doesn't have to play by the same rules as every other franchise. They will keep thinking that and keep watching as other teams pass them on the way down and then pass them on the way back up. Oh, it's well over 20 years. They've never adapted to The Hard Salary Cap Era. This is due to Ed Snider's arrogance, God Rest His Soul, and his adopted sons and their friends. They refuse to get out of their own way, therefore they can't. Also.. therefore, the best they'll ever be is good, not great. They're still stuck in the past. They'd rather honor questionable traditions, then win Cups. It's why I don't take the franchise seriously, anymore. I'm not all that confident, honestly, that they've even figured out how to treat their Russian players. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 18 minutes ago, FD19372 said: They've never adapted to The Hard Salary Cap Era. True, even as one of the primary architects of it. Their first move was to try every circumventing shenanigan available to them, and their last one - Pronger - blew up in their faces. When all of that was taken away, they were left with nothing. Even the attempt to bigfoot Nashville on Weber also blew up in their faces and chased Homer upstairs where every other team in the league wouldn't notice he was still with the team. Ever since this organization had to compete on a (mostly) level playing field with other teams in the league, they have been a mediocre bubble playoff team with no evident idea how to be anything else. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 All of this goes back to the senior advisors and how close they are to ownership. The entire senior advisor and management group needs to be fired, and I actually think Briere is doing a decent job. The influence the Clarkes, Holmgrens, Lombardis, etc....all have is ridiculous. I look at Briere and I see a guy who wants nothing more than to blow things up, but can't and has to type the company line. That leads me to wonder when Bill Zotto interviewed that if he didn't get the job because he stated that things need to be blown up and it's going to be painful, but the rewards will be worth it. I watch and listen to Briere and it seems like he wants to say more and do more, but his hands are tied by inept advisors and Jones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 19 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: All of this goes back to the senior advisors and how close they are to ownership. The entire senior advisor and management group needs to be fired, and I actually think Briere is doing a decent job. The influence the Clarkes, Holmgrens, Lombardis, etc....all have is ridiculous. I look at Briere and I see a guy who wants nothing more than to blow things up, but can't and has to type the company line. That leads me to wonder when Bill Zotto interviewed that if he didn't get the job because he stated that things need to be blown up and it's going to be painful, but the rewards will be worth it. I watch and listen to Briere and it seems like he wants to say more and do more, but his hands are tied by Flyers Hall Of Fame Alumni and Jones. FIFY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 On 8/19/2024 at 6:05 PM, flyercanuck said: It'd be a lot simpler to just pick early. Sure once you get to the picking part it's a lot simpler... it's the finishing last part that's not so simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 12 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Sure once you get to the picking part it's a lot simpler... it's the finishing last part that's not so simple. Don't have to finish last. Have to be eligible for and win the lottery. And then not have it turn out to be a bad year or a Nolan Patrick injury sitch. It's not easy to win in this league. It's harder when they insist on winning "their way" with "their players" (which has never worked for them). It's like putting on diving weights and trying to swim a competitive Olympic butterfly. Take a look at Florida. How many of "their players" won the Cup with them? Three - Barkov (2 overall), Ekblad (1), and Lundell (12). Plus Kulikov (who they traded and came back). They didn't become overly enamored with a bunch of guys who haven't been able to win a playoff round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 56 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Sure once you get to the picking part it's a lot simpler... it's the finishing last part that's not so simple. And it's not even hard to finish (not necessarily) last...trade off players that aren't in your plans for whatever time frame you think the team will be competitive in (I mean IF the Flyers actual did that sort of thing, instead of "always go for it, never get it"...pick up even more assets with those trades and weaken the team NOW to strengthen it THEN. It's not rocket science, just follow what pretty much every cup winner does. Or wait another 50 years and see if their way finally catches lightning in a bottle. I don't know about you, but I ain't holding my breath. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Sure the formula is straightforward but it does entail pain, sacrifice and embarrassment along the way...obviously with no guarantee you eventually hoist the Cup. Meanwhile your organization is dealing with what I mentioned - stuff I'm sure you're aware of but maybe aren't taking into account. For instance... Fan interest falls off a cliff... so lousy merch/tkt sales, half-empty rinks, bad press, etc. Inevitably heads will roll, folks who were in no way responsible for the situation. Disrupting lives and livelihood for a better chance at winning the Cup...not an easy decision. Icing a team of scrubs, guys who know if the team was legitimately competing they'd never crack the lineup ... using them solely for the purpose of losing ... that has to suck. Not just for the player(s) in question but also for the guys skating alongside them who are legit NHLers. There's more but I'm well aware you have a valid point if the goal is winning the Stanley Cup. I can't remember the history now - isn't it something like 20 of the last 25 Cup winners all had top 3 picks on their roster? Something like that. So either the Flyers believe they'll beat the odds their way...or they just don't value winning the Stanley Cup the way most NHL fans do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 8 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Sure the formula is straightforward but it does entail pain, sacrifice and embarrassment along the way...obviously with no guarantee you eventually hoist the Cup. Meanwhile your organization is dealing with what I mentioned - stuff I'm sure you're aware of but maybe aren't taking into account. For instance... Fan interest falls off a cliff... so lousy merch/tkt sales, half-empty rinks, bad press, etc. Inevitably heads will roll, folks who were in no way responsible for the situation. Disrupting lives and livelihood for a better chance at winning the Cup...not an easy decision. Icing a team of scrubs, guys who know if the team was legitimately competing they'd never crack the lineup ... using them solely for the purpose of losing ... that has to suck. Not just for the player(s) in question but also for the guys skating alongside them who are legit NHLers. There's more but I'm well aware you have a valid point if the goal is winning the Stanley Cup. I can't remember the history now - isn't it something like 20 of the last 25 Cup winners all had top 3 picks on their roster? Something like that. So either the Flyers believe they'll beat the odds their way...or they just don't value winning the Stanley Cup the way most NHL fans do. So how come the teams that win championships can do it? If pretty much EVERY single team that has won the cup since salary cap implementation has multiple 1st and 2nd overall choices on their roster (it's more than 80%, it's in the 90s), that tells me they bottomed out. Yet there their fans are cheering them on. Want to make more money? Try having a deep playoff run for a change. But to do that you need quality players, not the ones you grab in the middle of the pack that continually lead you to the middle of the pack. Instead, we get "here's your catchy new slogan and 3rd shimmery jersey". Players are going to balk at not being on a competitive roster? We're getting draft choices refusing to play for this franchise. Before they ever set foot on it. We haven't won in half a freaking century! Doing it The Flyer Way! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: So how come the teams that win championships can do it? If pretty much EVERY single team that has won the cup since salary cap implementation has multiple 1st and 2nd overall choices on their roster (it's more than 80%, it's in the 90s), that tells me they bottomed out. Yet there their fans are cheering them on. Want to make more money? Try having a deep playoff run for a change. But to do that you need quality players, not the ones you grab in the middle of the pack that continually lead you to the middle of the pack. Instead, we get "here's your catchy new slogan and 3rd shimmery jersey". Players are going to balk at not being on a competitive roster? We're getting draft choices refusing to play for this franchise. Before they ever set foot on it. We haven't won in half a freaking century! Doing it The Flyer Way! This is not directed at anyone specific here, but for some reason i cannot comprehend, some refuse to understand the mountain of experiential and conclusive evidence pointing to direct cause and effect of competing approaches. It doesn't matter how clear or articulate the explanation is or how solid one makes the case. We have people running franchises who, I believe, understand this but who willfully do the opposite and decide instead to do what they know is destined to failure because they also know there is a segment of the population to which they can successfully sell their snake oil. It you can convince those who still refuse to see the patiently obvious on this subject, please consider working on the delusion that is trickle down economics next. Edited August 23 by ruxpin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: patiently *Patently* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: *Patently* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post flyercanuck Posted August 23 Popular Post Share Posted August 23 7 hours ago, ruxpin said: This is not directed at anyone specific here, but for some reason i cannot comprehend, some refuse to understand the mountain of experiential and conclusive evidence pointing to direct cause and effect of competing approaches. It doesn't matter how clear or articulate the explanation is or how solid one makes the case. We have people running franchises who, I believe, understand this but who willfully do the opposite and decide instead to do what they know is destined to failure because they also know there is a segment of the population to which they can successfully sell their snake oil. It you can convince those who still refuse to see the patiently obvious on this subject, please consider working on the delusion that is trickle down economics next. Meanwhile, in San Jose, those idiots who don't know how to build a champion the Flyers way, drafted their #1 centre this year, a probable #1 defenceman to go with the other 1st line centre they drafted last year and just traded for the top goaltending prospect in the entire league. Chicago has picked up several key pieces over the last few years. We luckily had ONE piece fall into our laps through no skill by our management in a draft following a year we were going for it. If the most generic vanilla ice cream you could find ran a franchise, it would run it the exact same way. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Meanwhile, in San Jose, those idiots who don't know how to build a champion the Flyers way, drafted their #1 centre this year, a probable #1 defenceman to go with the other 1st line centre they drafted last year and just traded for the top goaltending prospect in the entire league. Chicago has picked up several key pieces over the last few years. We luckily had ONE piece fall into our laps through no skill by our management in a draft following a year we were going for it. If the most generic vanilla ice cream you could find ran a franchise, it would run it the exact same way. And they just landed their number 1 goaltender for a pittance. As for the Flyers rebuild, Howe many roster players has Briere moved since he took over? He's moved........three. An absolute **** show and ****** joke. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: And they just landed their number 1 goaltender for a pittance. As for the Flyers rebuild, Howe many roster players has Briere moved since he took over? He's moved........three. An absolute **** show and ****** joke. bbbbuuutttt we want to make the playoffs and rebuild at the same time...we are happy picking in the middle ...... (Sarcasm font) I'm so sick and tired of this dog and pony show ..... nothing ever changes with this organization ...... Edited August 23 by pilldoc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: As for the Flyers rebuild, Howe many roster players has Briere moved since he took over? He's moved........three. An absolute **** show and ****** joke. Ya, but he re-signed 32 year old Garnet Hathaway to keep the Flyers culture of "not being very good" alive and well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Ya, but he re-signed 32 year old Garnet Hathaway to keep the Flyers culture of "not being very good" alive and well! I'm sure the dumbass head coach had a day in that as well. A line up that could have 7, possibly 8, 20 goal scorers and their concern is a grinder like Hathaway. It speaks in volumes when Tortorella said that they would have to grind out goals and win that way because they didn't have capable offensive players in the lineup. I wish Comcast would sell to someone who understands hockey and bring in real hockey executives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 52 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I'm sure the dumbass head coach had a day in that as well. A line up that could have 7, possibly 8, 20 goal scorers and their concern is a grinder like Hathaway. It speaks in volumes when Tortorella said that they would have to grind out goals and win that way because they didn't have capable offensive players in the lineup. I wish Comcast would sell to someone who understands hockey and bring in real hockey executives. Like I have mentioned before…. I loss any emotional attachment to this team years ago …… sadly there are too many FB keyboard warriors who fall for this dog and pony show…. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Straw...meet man. My point wasn't "Yay let's keep doing it the Flyers' way!" I only pointed out that tanking is not so cut n dry and that there's sacrifice, risk and embarrassment that accompanies it. The closest anyone got was @flyercanuck who noted that other teams manage to do it. The fact that other teams manage to pull it off (most w/out winning anything btw) is meaningless because none of them are the Flyers. Different histories, different pressures, etc. make comparisons of that sort irrelevant imho. Someone will say, "but the Flyers are already an embarrassment!" and I agree. Prospects walking away under questionable circumstances; approaching the NHL Cup-drought record (unless they hold it already?)... Everyone in the organization is aware of the history. I bet it only alienates them even more to the thought of tanking. Winning solves everything and bottoming out for 3 years? I can see why that's a non-starter in Flyersland. They had a golden opportunity right after they canned Fletcher... I'm not arguing one way or the other, not really. I'm honestly just trying to find a reason to keep watching the Flyers. This season it's Michkov and (for me) Ersson. Beyond that ... it's getting harder every year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 On 8/23/2024 at 12:29 PM, Cheesesteak said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 On 8/24/2024 at 4:17 PM, GratefulFlyers said: Beyond that ... it's getting harder every year. That's what kills me. I was a partial season ticket buyer six years ago. My wife had her introduction to hockey. My godchildren identified me by the Flyers logo because I wore it so much. I got a new hat on Tippett's hat trick where I got a great deal on a lower bowl and they had just fired Fletcher. Don't get me wrong, I WANT the Flyers to be successful. CAN this work? Sure. Will it work better than a dozen other teams doing it differently? That's the question. Would you like to be San Jose right now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctid Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 5 hours ago, radoran said: Would you like to be San Jose right now? Oh yes! Dont know too much about their depth prospects, but Celebrini, Smith as their 1-2 C, Dickinson on D, Yaskarov in Goal. They have a top notch spine to build around, and need to find good depth/support players (maybe a top D or two prospect more) unlike us, we only have Michkov, maybe York, the rest are depth/Support. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.