RonJeremy Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 9 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: He's nothing like Laughton. His numbers are on par with what Laine did in Liiga. His style of play of closer to that of Alexander Barkov. Helenius is good - real good. And another kid that just turned 18 not long ago, so another growth spurt and he's closer to six feet already. He's already 185 pounds so he's got a solid frame already. I’ve heard he is plain vanilla compared to the skill level of other players who may be available when we pick, nothing special in the skills area , just a solid two way player. I want more high end skill if it’s available for our pick.i I guess time will tell. This is a paragraph from The Hockey Writers…. Helenius can really do it all. He’s determined and relentless, skates well, and uses his edges and quick changes effectively. He understands the defensive side of the game, knows how to pick off teammates who have the best chance at scoring with a strong pass, and has a quick, deceptive release. The only knock against him is that, of all these skills, none of them stand out above his competition Edited June 8 by RonJeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: OR, when you throw away a draft pick to bring in some broken down/lousy/washed up player you HAVE to bring him back to get value out of that draft pick that you never should have thrown away in the first place to prove you're not as stupid as your predecessor.... who used to do the exact same thing. Ancient Philly Proverb. And here we have Flyer management heading out with their groundbreaking cutting edge philosophy on how to build a champion....by trading picks and prospects for players born during this fashion era. Friggin clown show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: And here we have Flyer management heading out with their groundbreaking cutting edge philosophy on how to build a champion....by trading picks and prospects for players born during this fashion era. I'd wear it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: OR, when you throw away a draft pick to bring in some broken down/lousy/washed up player you HAVE to bring him back to get value out of that draft pick that you never should have thrown away in the first place to prove you're not as stupid as your predecessor.... who used to do the exact same thing. Ancient Philly Proverb. And here we have Flyer management heading out with their groundbreaking cutting edge philosophy on how to build a champion....by trading picks and prospects for players born during this fashion era. Keep focusing on Eric Johnson, because it fits your narrative. https://youtu.be/GUr9ltuk2X4?si=Piy7EtoBVj_STWou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, RonJeremy said: I’ve heard he is plain vanilla compared to the skill level of other players who may be available when we pick, nothing special in the skills area , just a solid two way player. I want more high end skill if it’s available for our pick.i I guess time will tell. This is a paragraph from The Hockey Writers…. Helenius can really do it all. He’s determined and relentless, skates well, and uses his edges and quick changes effectively. He understands the defensive side of the game, knows how to pick off teammates who have the best chance at scoring with a strong pass, and has a quick, deceptive release. The only knock against him is that, of all these skills, none of them stand out above his competition @RonJeremy He's 18 playing in a pro men's league. And he's doing better than just surviving. He compares to Laine and Barkov. You don't think the Flyers could use a player like that? They need good players. If he's around when they pick they'd be fools to not at least consider him. I'd be delighted if they picked him. I don't know where the Laughton comparison comes from. If it's from a scout or people here doing their own research/or laziness oh he's not a game breaker he's a Laughton? I don't think it's a good comparison. If scouts say Barkov and we say Laughton ? Like there isn't a chasm of ability between those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: @RonJeremy He's 18 playing in a pro men's league. And he's doing better than just surviving. He compares to Laine and Barkov. You don't think the Flyers could use a player like that? They need good players. If he's around when they pick they'd be fools to not at least consider him. I'd be delighted if they picked him. I don't know where the Laughton comparison comes from. If it's from a scout or people here doing their own research/or laziness oh he's not a game breaker he's a Laughton? I don't think it's a good comparison. If scouts say Barkov and we say Laughton ? Like there isn't a chasm of ability between those players. If he is the only thing available when we pick, then yeah, but I’d rather get a more dynamic player with a higher skill level. Ingila , Yakemchuck or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Keep focusing on Eric Johnson, because it fits your narrative. https://youtu.be/GUr9ltuk2X4?si=Piy7EtoBVj_STWou Erik Johnson was in my rear view mirror until I read, on here, that Briere is thinking about bringing (you mentioned dead horse not long ago) a dead horse back. That (and you can sugar coat it all you want) is just plain dumb same old Flyer crap. Now he hasn't brought him back yet, but I was responding to the comment he might. And honestly, your "KumbaYAH" narrative, no matter what the Flyers do, isn't exactly nailing it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: He compares to Laine and Barkov. In fairness, other than both being from Finland, these two are not remotely alike. For one thing, Barkov is a good hockey player, elite even (we'll find out shortly won't we?). Laine has a good shot. He looks quite a bit more like Barkov to me, but if he's Barkov with Laine's shot, well then, you've got something don't you?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 22 hours ago, RonJeremy said: The Clarke Griswald Family Truckster. Of course in Metallic Pea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 29 minutes ago, Podein25 said: For one thing, Barkov is a good hockey player, elite even (we'll find out shortly won't we?). I’m convinced already no matter what happens in the next couple weeks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 @flyercanuck I'm far from stepford when it comes to this team. There is a lot to talk about and focus on in the coming weeks. A league minimum deal to #7 veteran is thing 20-25 on my list. Why is it top 5 on yours? Will they revoke your honorary trash can from the Grouch club if you don't bitch about your hockey team ? This managment group has been as transparent as possible. They seem committed to rebuilding the organization, feeling good about that is okay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 2 hours ago, Podein25 said: In fairness, other than both being from Finland, these two are not remotely alike. For one thing, Barkov is a good hockey player, elite even (we'll find out shortly won't we?). Laine has a good shot. He looks quite a bit more like Barkov to me, but if he's Barkov with Laine's shot, well then, you've got something don't you?! He's scored at a pace that is in the Laine range. I don't know if he loves GTA 4 more than girls though. So I'll retract the Laine comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 9 hours ago, RonJeremy said: I’ve heard he is plain vanilla compared to the skill level of other players who may be available when we pick, nothing special in the skills area , just a solid two way player. I want more high end skill if it’s available for our pick.i I guess time will tell. This is a paragraph from The Hockey Writers…. Helenius can really do it all. He’s determined and relentless, skates well, and uses his edges and quick changes effectively. He understands the defensive side of the game, knows how to pick off teammates who have the best chance at scoring with a strong pass, and has a quick, deceptive release. The only knock against him is that, of all these skills, none of them stand out above his competition Helenius is a great pick if the Flyers do what they should do and BITFU the roster. The mere inkling of signing Johnson or trading#12 makes me cringe. I hope upon hope that Briere is blowing smoke, but I feel like he has drank the koolaid and thinks they are a piece or 2 away. We shall see soon enough. There are solid build a team around pieces in this draft and the next 2 as well, but not picking at #12. They need to bottom out and be in the 1-2-3 lottery. Everyone seems to know this (for a decade plus) except Flyers management. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 23 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: @flyercanuck I'm far from stepford when it comes to this team. There is a lot to talk about and focus on in the coming weeks. A league minimum deal to #7 veteran is thing 20-25 on my list. Why is it top 5 on yours? Will they revoke your honorary trash can from the Grouch club if you don't bitch about your hockey team ? This managment group has been as transparent as possible. They seem committed to rebuilding the organization, feeling good about that is okay. Sure I complain when the Flyers do stupid shite. Unfortunately, that's what most of their decisions have been over way too long of a period. I was driving the "draft Michkov" bus when most here weren't on board. It's the best thing that's happened to this franchise in a long time. Funny how getting top quality talent is all I've asked for, but for some reason it hasn't seemed like much of a priority. It's pretty obvious what kind of talent you need to contend. We "may" have one piece after how many years of sucking, but not enough to get top end talent? We don't agree, but I still respect your opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: @flyercanuck I'm far from stepford when it comes to this team. There is a lot to talk about and focus on in the coming weeks. A league minimum deal to #7 veteran is thing 20-25 on my list. Why is it top 5 on yours? Will they revoke your honorary trash can from the Grouch club if you don't bitch about your hockey team ? This managment group has been as transparent as possible. They seem committed to rebuilding the organization, feeling good about that is okay. What is 1-19 on your list please? It seems to me the board goes through this process every 3-5 years where people get hyped every time a new coach or GM comes in and think this time the Flyers have it figured out. After a few years when it becomes obvious that the Flyers haven't figured anything out, people here start looking around questioning "what happened" because to them it comes out of nowhere. They were told this time it would be different and they ignored every piece of evidence to the contrary along they way. So if in 3-5 years the team is still struggling to win a single playoff series, and Torts is gone and Briere is up against the cap, because not every one of the few assets the team has acquired became a star, all I ask is, please don't ask "what happened." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: And honestly, your "KumbaYAH" narrative, no matter what the Flyers do, isn't exactly nailing it either. PCU 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 13 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: What is 1-19 on your list please? It seems to me the board goes through this process every 3-5 years where people get hyped every time a new coach or GM comes in and think this time the Flyers have it figured out. After a few years when it becomes obvious that the Flyers haven't figured anything out, people here start looking around questioning "what happened" because to them it comes out of nowhere. They were told this time it would be different and they ignored every piece of evidence to the contrary along they way. So if in 3-5 years the team is still struggling to win a single playoff series, and Torts is gone and Briere is up against the cap, because not every one of the few assets the team has acquired became a star, all I ask is, please don't ask "what happened." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 6 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Like there isn't a chasm of ability between those players. Are you attempting to suggest there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Take the dates and specific player names off the posts and i swear to God no one would be able to tell which year this thread was posted between 2013 and now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, mojo1917 said: He's scored at a pace that is in the Laine range. I don't know if he loves GTA 4 more than girls though. So I'll retract the Laine comparison. He is Barkov with the shot of Laughton? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 4 hours ago, flyer4ever said: Helenius is a great pick if the Flyers do what they should do and BITFU the roster. The mere inkling of signing Johnson or trading#12 makes me cringe. I hope upon hope that Briere is blowing smoke, but I feel like he has drank the koolaid and thinks they are a piece or 2 away. We shall see soon enough. There are solid build a team around pieces in this draft and the next 2 as well, but not picking at #12. They need to bottom out and be in the 1-2-3 lottery. Everyone seems to know this (for a decade plus) except Flyers management. Who is saying they are trading pick #12? I haven't heard that anywhere. Have you? Also they aren't blowing it up. So what else do you have? @SCFlyguy How many picks in this draft? We'll start there for the first 8 questions. Michkov and when he arrives, who does he play with? Kick the tires on Koktimiemi should he get bought out? What to do with Konecny? Whom to buy out? Can something be done to move up in the draft and get younger? If #11 is in play but Cates is the piece + Fla pick how fast is the trade made? Any takers for Risto? How much to retain? You're feeling me now. @ruxpin No they're basically the same player amirite? To all: This leadership group has not traded futures or prospects for win now players. They care about bringing the shine back to the organization. I believe them when they say they are going to do their best to get it right. Also, seems like a great time to say...Hooray for the salary cap and how the billionaires managed to get the thousandaires to hate and resent the millionaires. Yet somehow I'm the rube because I don't want to always see the worst in every move my favorite hockey team makes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: @ruxpin No they're basically the same player amirite Good. We're on the same page then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, ruxpin said: Take the dates and specific player names off the posts and i swear to God no one would be able to tell which year this thread was posted between 2013 and now I love those kind of drafts. When there isn't consensus, let the fun begin!!!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 11 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Who is saying they are trading pick #12? I haven't heard that anywhere. Have you? Also they aren't blowing it up. So what else do you have? @SCFlyguy How many picks in this draft? We'll start there for the first 8 questions. Michkov and when he arrives, who does he play with? Kick the tires on Koktimiemi should he get bought out? What to do with Konecny? Whom to buy out? Can something be done to move up in the draft and get younger? If #11 is in play but Cates is the piece + Fla pick how fast is the trade made? Any takers for Risto? How much to retain? You're feeling me now. like i dont get it where these fans are getting the idea that playing a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds to going to win cups? like every team that's been in the finals are mostly players in their late 20s, some of them are over 30, that's the biggest issue why teams that are built with players that are younger than 25 havent made the playoffs in decades because they are still learning how to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: like i dont get it where these fans are getting the idea that playing a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds to going to win cups? like every team that's been in the finals are mostly players in their late 20s, some of them are over 30, that's the biggest issue why teams that are built with players that are younger than 25 havent made the playoffs in decades because they are still learning how to win. Who are "these fans"? We need top end talent. The way pretty much every team gets said talent is through the draft. The Oilers aren't giving us McDavid or Draisaitl. Florida isn't giving us Barkov and Ekblad. If you can get that kind of talent, you then fill in the holes with acquirable talent. But you don't "start" with 29-34 year olds. Edited June 9 by flyercanuck 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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