BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 29 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Did you see what Florida did in the playoffs? A team with toughness, size and skill is the team that wins. We are building with a plan, not just acquiring pieces that dont fit. A balanced team is what wins, not a one dimensional team. We already have a small non physical center, Frost, you need to complement that with a big skilled center. We have York, Drysdale, Farabee, TK, Brink and Laughton, all small guys. We have more than enough small guys.You will never win with a small team, I don't care how much skill they have. The playoffs is a whole different game. TK is worth more than Stankoven. He scored like 14 points, how is that a fair trade? We're not Florida yet. And these big guys just don't grow on trees. And this is exactly how the Flyers got into trouble in the first place - Charles 'Entertainment' Fletcher was enamored with how the Islanders were built with size and truculence and that's how he and Vigneault went about trying to reshape the team. I don't give a flying **** what other franchises do. This franchise needs talent. Get the talent first and then start adding size. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 4 hours ago, mojo1917 said: You guys need to come to grips with the fact that Jones and Briere don't want the do the rebuild the way you think it should be done. They are doing the thing, you are not. You are mostly preaching to the choir here. And for me I'd love to have discussions about what is happening and maybe speculate about what could happen. That draft lottery site was fun until it broke. But for ****s sake this horse is dead, and the beating it's taking is morose. Flyers are the one beating a dead horse, trying to build a corpse of a team into a contender. When they stop doing that, the questions you want to discuss will actually start to matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 22 minutes ago, radoran said: If Frost is your #2 center, then you also need a #2 center. Thats why I don't want a tiny runt joining the team. Frost is the only playmaking center we have. I have not seen any Flyer make the plays he has created. On the Flyers he is actually a number one center right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 6 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: We're not Florida yet. And these big guys just don't grow on trees. And this is exactly how the Flyers got into trouble in the first place - Charles 'Entertainment' Fletcher was enamored with how the Islanders were built with size and truculence and that's how he and Vigneault went about trying to reshape the team. I don't give a flying **** what other franchises do. This franchise needs talent. Get the talent first and then start adding size. You don't give a crap what other franchises do? Most of them win more than the Flyers, so why not take a page from their book and follow their blueprint for success. FLA is in the finals two years in a row..should we copy them or go with the Fletcher, Clarke and Holmgren plan? How about getting right to the point and just adding a guy with both talent and size. We have two wingers in Foerester and Tippet that fit that bill. Now we need that on defense and at Center. We also have some talent without size like Michkov, Frost, Farabee, Drysdale and York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Thats why I don't want a tiny runt joining the team. Frost is the only playmaking center we have. I have not seen any Flyer make the plays he has created. On the Flyers he is actually a number one center right now. Maybe its just me, but I think Stankoven has considerably more offensive upside than Frost. I agree with BC here...get the skill/talent in the building and then make adjustments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, jammer2 said: Maybe its just me, but I think Stankoven has considerably more offensive upside than Frost. I agree with BC here...get the skill/talent in the building and then make adjustments. I'm not denying his skill, but if you are keeping Frost, then you don't get another small non physical center who only scored 14 points. If he is your replacement for Frost , that's a different story, but Konecny is worth far more than Stankoven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Just now, RonJeremy said: I'm not denying his skill, but if you are keeping Frost, then you don't get another small non physical center who only scored 14 points. If he is your replacement for Frost , that's a different story, but Konecny is worth far more than Stankoven. Not saying a straight up deal, but a young talent like Stanks is a nice starting point. Kid is creative and could really boost one of THE worst power plays in the history of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 9 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Not saying a straight up deal, but a young talent like Stanks is a nice starting point. Kid is creative and could really boost one of THE worst power plays in the history of the league. Despite playing in by far the toughest minutes of any other center, Frost had the best plus-minus, the second-best xGF%, the best scoring chances percentage (SCF%), and the second-best high-danger chances percentage (HDCF%) on the team from Jan. 4 through the last game of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 10 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Not saying a straight up deal, but a young talent like Stanks is a nice starting point. Kid is creative and could really boost one of THE worst power plays in the history of the league. Is he a potential #1 or #2 center? If not then I'd keep a trade chip like TK for a trade in the draft to get a guy like Lindstrom or a. dman like Dickinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: So you're saying you're a follower then?? When it comes to completely obvious ways of doing something? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 57 minutes ago, radoran said: If Frost is your #2 center, then you also need a #2 center. Myself i am pulling the trigger on an enigma for enigma swap i know you won't be a fan of maybe... Zegras for Frost swap... ...very risky i know but if i get a top line LW to play on the opposite wing as Michkov i am good with it. TK for Stankoven? Edited June 3 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 34 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: We're not Florida yet. And these big guys just don't grow on trees. And this is exactly how the Flyers got into trouble in the first place - Charles 'Entertainment' Fletcher was enamored with how the Islanders were built with size and truculence and that's how he and Vigneault went about trying to reshape the team. I don't give a flying **** what other franchises do. This franchise needs talent. Get the talent first and then start adding size. What size and truculence do you speak of, we have been drafting smaller guys for years now..Farabee, Frost, TK ,York and Brink all first or second rounders. We haven't drafted for size since Sam Morin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 26 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Maybe its just me, but I think Stankoven has considerably more offensive upside than Frost. I agree with BC here...get the skill/talent in the building and then make adjustments. What about just getting a big guy with skill instead of a small guy and then making an adjustment. We need to move full speed ahead, not reconfigure and make adjustments. We have wasted enough years, we have to make every move count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 22 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Not saying a straight up deal, but a young talent like Stanks is a nice starting point. Kid is creative and could really boost one of THE worst power plays in the history of the league. It all starts with the defense,Guy Lafluer couldn't score with our PP personnel. We need some creative dmen who's passes aren't so telegraphed and who can actually hit the net with a shot. Our PP is so slow and predictable, I've seen more creative PPs in a street hockey game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: It all starts with the defense,Guy Lafluer couldn't score with our PP personnel. We need some creative dmen who's passes aren't so telegraphed and who can actually hit the net with a shot. Our PP is so slow and predictable, I've seen more creative PPs in a street hockey game. Agree with this, have been saying the same thing for a while. No ability to create quick crisp passing lanes from this defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 17 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Despite playing in by far the toughest minutes of any other center, Frost had the best plus-minus, the second-best xGF%, the best scoring chances percentage (SCF%), and the second-best high-danger chances percentage (HDCF%) on the team from Jan. 4 through the last game of the season. "On the team" is a low bar to clear. And this would be the second year in a row that Frost had a "hot" Spring. Unfortunately, the season starts in Fall. And the Flyers wound up absolutely collapsing down the stretch. I don't see anything about Frost that makes me go "he's the #2 Center on a Cup winning team in five years." If he plays effectively and productively for a full season next year, we can revisit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Just now, radoran said: "On the team" is a low bar to clear. And this would be the second year in a row that Frost had a "hot" Spring. Unfortunately, the season starts in Fall. And the Flyers wound up absolutely collapsing down the stretch. I don't see anything about Frost that makes me go "he's the #2 Center on a Cup winning team in five years." If he plays effectively and productively for a full season next year, we can revisit. His development like many other Flyers was hindered by injury and poor coaching. Like it or not, right now he is our most creative playmaker. It remains to be seen if he can become a legit #2 center. This is the deciding year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 5 minutes ago, radoran said: "On the team" is a low bar to clear. And this would be the second year in a row that Frost had a "hot" Spring. Unfortunately, the season starts in Fall. And the Flyers wound up absolutely collapsing down the stretch. I don't see anything about Frost that makes me go "he's the #2 Center on a Cup winning team in five years." If he plays effectively and productively for a full season next year, we can revisit. P.S., Everyone talks about Frost starting slow but they dont talk aboit all the other guys doing the same thing. I don't see much consistency from any Flyers players, the whole team is streaky and dissappear for long stretches. Frost got benched alot early on and in spite of all the games he missed he was still one of the top scorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 4 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: This is the deciding year. Right, and he better blow some doors off from the jump, not bumble around for 40 games... There's nothing magical about "keeping Frost" - I'm actually getting tired of "waiting for Frost." If he's productive, great. If not, they need better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, RonJeremy said: he was still one of the top scorers. Again, very low bar to clear. 2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Everyone talks about Frost starting slow but they dont talk aboit all the other guys doing the same thing. I'm talking about Frost starting slow because he's always started slow. Sometimes when guys show you who they are, believe them. Again, he comes out and starts hot and puts up a 60-70 point season, terrific. I ain't putting money on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, radoran said: Right, and he better blow some doors off from the jump, not bumble around for 40 games... There's nothing magical about "keeping Frost" - I'm actually getting tired of "waiting for Frost." If he's productive, great. If not, they need better players. I agree and that goes for all the guys. If vets like TK go on 15 game pointless streaks, then how can we expect a young guy like Frost to do better. We have to take into account this team blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Again, very low bar to clear. I'm talking about Frost starting slow because he's always started slow. Sometimes when guys show you who they are, believe them. Again, he comes out and starts hot and puts up a 60-70 point season, terrific. I ain't putting money on that. He may not, but until something better comes along....it seems like alot of our guys are in the same boat. Farabee was hot and then faded in the stretch . Maybe we just have a bad team. Of course it's a low bar, the team is mediocre. Edited June 3 by RonJeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: If vets like TK go on 15 game pointless streaks TK had 29 points-less games last year. No more than three in a row - once. Frost started off point-less in his first six games and during his "hot" spring he had two points-less stretches of three games, another of four, and finished the season blanked in the last six games. That's 16 games with no points while he's supposedly "hot". I don't get the fascination - did he buy you a beer at a bar once or something? #Esche 6 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: how can we expect a young guy like Frost to do better. I don't. I just don't think he's that good. It's hanging around waiting for a guy to be "that guy" that has the Flyers where they are now. This year is his chance. His last chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: We're not Florida yet. And these big guys just don't grow on trees. Exactly, this is the very reason why if a big skilled dman like Yakemchuckor Dickinson is available, I'm taking them over a one dimensional 160lb runt like Catton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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