OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Personally, I think the keyword gaslighting everything here is "circumvention". If there is 'language' in the CBA about players returning back to a team inside of a year to being there previously, then THAT is the holdup and issue....and 'circumvention', really isn't the issue here. Buck stops with "Player A was here less than a year ago....we have a structure in place to keep teams from volleying players back in forth within a year". And that is that. Has NOTHING to do with LTIR, playoffs...none of that. Whether people like teams do with LTIR or not, has nothing to do with this trade or the reason it is being held up. Does this mean the trade can't happen? Of course not. If there isn't much left to go before the timing on this expires, so then let that happen first, then the teams can have at it. I agree with most that Bettman is a tool. With all the good he HAS done for the NHL, he sure knows how to stir up controversy and skew the optics in such a way that people think he is the manifestation of the devil himself. And hey, if somehow the Canes and Flyers can argue their case and the NHL changes its stance on this time thing, then more power to the clubs for their powers of persuasion. Of course, if the clubs DO change the NHL's mind, then expect others to try and do the same down the road in a similar situation. As for LTIR circumvention, again NOTHING to do with this particular case, and the word being used, either by the reporting party or the NHL themselves, is grossly out of place and does nothing except to serve as crying point for some to blow things out of proportion. If the NHL feels there is circumvention with LTIR, then they NEED TO CHANGE THE FREAKIN RULES...otherwise, teams can, will, and SHOULD use them all to their advantage in any way that is allowable. DeAngelo, Canes, Flyers...nothing to do with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Personally, I think the keyword gaslighting everything here is "circumvention". If there is 'language' in the CBA about players returning back to a team inside of a year to being there previously, then THAT is the holdup and issue....and 'circumvention', really isn't the issue here. Buck stops with "Player A was here less than a year ago....we have a structure in place to keep teams from volleying players back in forth within a year". And that is that. Has NOTHING to do with LTIR, playoffs...none of that. Whether people like teams do with LTIR or not, has nothing to do with this trade or the reason it is being held up. Does this mean the trade can't happen? Of course not. If there isn't much left to go before the timing on this expires, so then let that happen first, then the teams can have at it. I agree with most that Bettman is a tool. With all the good he HAS done for the NHL, he sure knows how to stir up controversy and skew the optics in such a way that people think he is the manifestation of the devil himself. And hey, if somehow the Canes and Flyers can argue their case and the NHL changes its stance on this time thing, then more power to the clubs for their powers of persuasion. Of course, if the clubs DO change the NHL's mind, then expect others to try and do the same down the road in a similar situation. As for LTIR circumvention, again NOTHING to do with this particular case, and the word being used, either by the reporting party or the NHL themselves, is grossly out of place and does nothing except to serve as crying point for some to blow things out of proportion. If the NHL feels there is circumvention with LTIR, then they NEED TO CHANGE THE FREAKIN RULES...otherwise, teams can, will, and SHOULD use them all to their advantage in any way that is allowable. DeAngelo, Canes, Flyers...nothing to do with that. Says the circumventor...i see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Says the circumventor...i see. Common response...but then, if I were to play that game along with everyone else who is complaining about the wrong thing at the wrong time, I could turn that around and say the cryers are the people whose teams either LOST or don't have a GM who is savvy enough to work things in his team's favor. But I'm not going there... Teams have done what the recent Cup winners have done and HAVEN'T won, but no one is giving a damned about that because they didn't win. All I'm gonna say on that because this pissin n moaning is well past its expiry date. Those that want to, can continue to moan about it. This DeAngelo case is about time served on a team and the NHL and the CBA having some structure that prevents less than a year's return. Simple as that. I truly hope the Canes and Flyers can work things out with the league. But things should all be kept in perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, FD19372 said: It's been obvious to me for a while. I think the key here is the Flyers/Canes are breaking the actual rule, but not the spirit of the rule. Why? Because Fletcher gave DeAngelo a new deal, which had nothing to do with the Canes cap situation and this deal is under a new Flyers regime. Its pretty obvious nobody is skirting the cap...but I do understand why the rule is in place. Quite possible the NHL looks at the specifics ànd allows it to go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, FD19372 said: It's been obvious to me for a while. I think the key here is the Flyers/Canes are breaking the actual rule, but not the spirit of the rule. Why? Because Fletcher gave DeAngelo a new deal, which had nothing to do with the Canes cap situation and this deal is under a new Flyers regime. Its pretty obvious nobody is skirting the cap...but I do understand why the rule is in place. Quite possible the NHL looks at the specifics ànd allows it to go through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Easy fix here. The trade took place July 8. If it's for a prospect, make the deal on July 9th. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 @TropicalFruitGirl26 I think you made the mistake of taking my joke seriously. The Flyers/Canes deal, as is, seems to be against the rules of the league, and could be construed as a form of cap circumvention, so it will be held up. I love the sport of hockey, but the NHL is very often a ridiculous league. They allow players to be on LTIR due to severe concussions which are said to be disabling, and then they turn around and hire that player for an job in the league office. They allow one team to be a dumping ground for other teams to foist their dead cap, retired players and so forth on, with not even an attempt to ice a competitive team, and always ensuring they don't move to a market where more than a few people will watch. They finalize conditional trades and then play willy-nilly with those conditions on a whim. They penalize teams for hiring out of work coaches. It's legal to hire children in Arkansas. I don't care; it's not right, and it's not moaning to point it out. Clowns like Jeff Bezos don't pay as much tax as the workers in his fulfillment centres do. I don't care if he's not breaking the law; it's not right, and it's not moaning to point it out. And the NHL allow teams to hide salary during the regular season so they can ice playoff rosters which make a mockery of competitive balance. I don't care if it's within the rules; it's not moaning to point out that the rule is ridiculous, and I've no more interest in defending those teams than I do the child labour laws in Arkansas or how tax laws are applied to the worst people in the world. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 I'm actually starting to feel sympathy for Chuck Fletcher. After looking at the mess he's made, it obciois the poor man is mentally unstable or an alcoholic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 9 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: This DeAngelo case is about time served on a team and the NHL and the CBA having some structure that prevents less than a year's return. Simple as that. The Flyers better be getting a bundle back after giving up the 2/3/4 to get TDA. They certainly wouldn't be PAYING to help Carolina circumvent, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 hour ago, radoran said: The Flyers better be getting a bundle back after giving up the 2/3/4 to get TDA. They certainly wouldn't be PAYING to help Carolina circumvent, right? Not since March 11, 2023 Chetch Flucker free for 109 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 On 6/26/2023 at 11:37 PM, radoran said: The Flyers better be getting a bundle back after giving up the 2/3/4 to get TDA. That deal was just mind-boggling. That all those managers, advisors, etc. in the Flyers/ Comcast orbit would let that idiot make an offer like that, then allow him to pay the player over and above top dollar… It will be only fitting when Briere has to accept a bottom-barrel, take-it-or-leave-it deal to get rid of DeAngelo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: That deal was just mind-boggling. That all those managers, advisors, etc. in the Flyers/ Comcast orbit would let that idiot make an offer like that, then allow him to pay the player over and above top dollar… To replace the EXACT SKILLSET of a player he had just paid a 2nd and a 7th to get rid of - at a lower cap hit If you ever see an old guy with a hammer playing Whack A Mole that's Fletcher playing GM. He's ABSOLUTELY SURE he's got it EVERY TIME. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: That all those managers, advisors, etc. in the Flyers/ Comcast orbit would let that idiot make an offer like that, then allow him to pay the player over and above top dollar… The same idiots who let him stay in charge and screw up the trade deadline last year instead of going ahead and removing him and letting Danny take a swing moving some of the junk...anyways water under the bridge right now... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 11:39 AM, radoran said: To replace the EXACT SKILLSET of a player he had just paid a 2nd and a 7th to get rid of - at a lower cap hit Oh my goodness that's right! I forgot all about Gostisbehere - and I was one of his biggest fans. I kept saying it was stupid to trade him but most folks around here (and in the Flyers' coaches meetings I believe) had convinced themselves he was no better than a "PP specialist" and was too expensive to boot. Well he sure did turn out to be expensive alright - lol. Good god when you think of the assets given up just to trade him away...and even more to replace him ... plus whatever it takes to replace his replacement....truly MIND BOGGLING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Just now, GratefulFlyers said: Oh my goodness that's right! I forgot all about Gostisbehere - and I was one of his biggest fans. I kept saying it was stupid to trade him but most folks around here (and in the Flyers' coaches meetings I believe) had convinced themselves he was no better than a "PP specialist" and was too expensive to boot. Well he sure did turn out to be expensive alright - lol. Good god when you think of the assets given up just to trade him away...and even more to replace him ... plus whatever it takes to replace his replacement....truly MIND BOGGLING! Water under the bridge now let' just let Danny erase it all and go from there. He already turn Jay O'Bien's comp pick into the top goalie prospect in North America (according to a few) let just enjoy the ride and decompress from what Chuck put us though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: He already turn Jay O'Bien's comp pick into the top goalie prospect in North America Sounds pretty good for "missing" on the pick and not trading it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 10 minutes ago, radoran said: Sounds pretty good for "missing" on the pick and not trading it then. Sure they didn't even attempt to trade so no telling what could have had back then could've packaged it with a player and even traded back, so many options but hey at least Danny made something of the Great Hextall's whiff now. Good thing Danny knows how to be creative and think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Danny made something of the Great Hextall's whiff now. Yeah they could have had *checks notes* what they just drafted at 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 Massimo Rizzo...welcome to Philly (in a few days!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 9 hours ago, jammer2 said: Massimo Rizzo...welcome to Philly (in a few days!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 2:17 PM, OccamsRazor said: Water under the bridge now let' just let Danny erase it all and go from there. for sure I just couldn’t help reliving the shock and horror of one of Fletcher’s Finest. Back to the present things are finally looking up for the Flyers. Hayes is gone JVR too. After the 9th I guess DeAngelo will be off the roster as well. The draft went great, better than expected even and the Rebuild appears to be in full swing. The one misfit still remaining is Ristolainen. Somebody posted that he’ll likely be positioned as a TD candidate, which makes sense. If he’ll ever attract an offer it’ll be then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: for sure I just couldn’t help reliving the shock and horror of one of Fletcher’s Finest. Back to the present things are finally looking up for the Flyers. Hayes is gone JVR too. After the 9th I guess DeAngelo will be off the roster as well. The draft went great, better than expected even and the Rebuild appears to be in full swing. The one misfit still remaining is Ristolainen. Somebody posted that he’ll likely be positioned as a TD candidate, which makes sense. If he’ll ever attract an offer it’ll be then. One can only hope....maybe by then Fletcher or Buffalo Rick are GM of a team looking for that one missing piece! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 12 hours ago, jammer2 said: Massimo Rizzo...welcome to Philly (in a few days!) Has that been confirmed that's the player heading back? There was a post on Twitter a week ago that the player was Vasily Ponomarev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: One can only hope....maybe by then Fletcher or Buffalo Rick are GM of a team looking for that one missing piece! Definitely. Ristolainen can be the missing piece because he’s the “missing link.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts