Flyers Report Card - Coaches / Front Office (What would you give them?)

[CoachX]

16 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

The Canucks situation wouldn't be on her, as she only became Assistant GM in Vancouver just over a year ago

if the Flyers still suck a year from now, will it be Briere's fault?

[JR Ewing]

Just now, CoachX said:

if the Flyers still suck a year from now, will it be Briere's fault?

 

I don't know. I'm just saying that the Canucks have been bad for 8 years, and Castonguay has been the Assistant GM for the last 1 one of them. Given that, I'm not comfortable painting her with the same brush at this stage of the game.

[OccamsRazor]

On 4/23/2023 at 4:15 PM, flyercanuck said:

 

Anything...anything is better than Fletcher.

 

 

 

So she's out now they will find another option...

[flyercanuck]

56 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

 

So she's out now they will find another option...

 

 

Scott Mellanby, Ray Shero, Dave Poulin,

 

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...

[flyercanuck]

Can we just hire the best person available....instead of guy affiliated with Flyers?

[mkscrewy]

I heard Chuck Fletcher is available as President of Hockey ops.

 

[radoran]

7 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

I heard Chuck Fletcher is available as President of Hockey ops.

 

Mr. Holmgren, sir, there's pudding in the executive lounge.

 

[GratefulFlyers]

21 hours ago, CoachX said:

anyone can say anything. IMO Briere hasn't done a thing yet. Like you though, I will retain optimism. Any change right now is a good change

 

Oh sure "anyone can say anything" but words matter. What Briere said about the senior advisors has never been said by anyone in the Flyers org. "I'm not sure what will happen with them" is unprecedented. To many of us that's a clear signal that more Big Changes in management are coming.

 

After hearing that I won't be surprised if Clarke, Holmgren, Barber and Lombardi all end their tenure this summer one way or another.

[GratefulFlyers]

But back to the report card - this season, the front office. Everybody is giving them an F (or worse). Why? What exactly did they do this season that warrants a failing grade? Ninety-nine percent of the damage was done 4 years ago when they hired that doofus to manage the Flyers. This season they finally canned his dumb ass.

 

What else? They promoted Briere to interim GM. Now maybe that's a "meh," ex-Flyer and all. Fair enough. But based on what he said in his first presser it sounds like the Flyers' management is entering a new era. The "subtraction" that Tortorella (and Briere) said was coming was explicitly about the players but I think we can at least hope it refers to the senior advisors as well.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Why? What exactly did they do this season that warrants a failing grade? Ninety-nine percent of the damage was done 4 years ago when they hired that doofus to manage the Flyers. This season they finally canned his dumb ass.

 

I'm not speaking for anyone else.

 

My reason is it should have been done sooner.

 

Danny B should have been given the chance to see if he could make any moves before the deadline so we didn't have to wait till the summer.

 

It would have been good practice to get his feet wet and not they let that buffoon screw it up.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Why? What exactly did they do this season that warrants a failing grade?

 

1. traded for/signed Deangelo

2. didn't trade JVR

3. picking up Sedlak instead of Tolvanen

4. extending Sanheim when they didn't need to

5. leaving Fletcher in control through the trade deadline, then firing him

6. year one of Ristolainen extension

7. Deslauriers

 

The "front office" didn't even hire Tortorella. They hired an outside firm to do it.

 

What did they do - aside from "fixing" a problem of their own creation by firing a guy they hired - to warrant a good grade this year?

[pilldoc]

4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Why? What exactly did they do this season that warrants a failing grade?

 

1). Traded second-, third- and fourth-round picks for Tony DeAngelo and signed him to a two-year, $10 million contract. The DeAngelo trade proved to be a dramatic overpay, both in terms of assets and contract.

 

2). Signed Nicolas Deslauriers to a four-year, $7.5 million contract. it was an overpay for what he brought on the ice.  Oh and by the way it is a NTC contract to boot ...seriously?????  (Thankfully it is a modified NTC ending June 2024)

 

3). The Sanheim extension — announced just before puck drop for Game 1 — has not aged well at all. Sanheim was absolutely brutal this season. Sanheim’s inherent weaknesses are clear at this point. He’s not especially physical and this season, he didn’t score (just 23 points). He was a play-driving liability (ninth percentile by xG impact). And all of his other flaws remained. It became an “Office Space” situation of “What would you say you do here?  This is what you get for paying him a contract at $50 million x 8 years.  Absolutely brutal and waste of money.

 

4). The trade deadline was, to be blunt, a major disappointment, as Fletcher proved unable to get any draft picks back for JVR and Braun, accumulating only a 2023 sixth and a 2024 fifth "as a seller".

 

5). Fletcher never admitted the Flyers were rebuilding. And that really was the big problem in my book ..... 

 

6). Keifer Bellows pick up was a waste of a contract and space considering Eli Tolvanen was available a few short days later.

 

7). The FO one strong waiver claim (Lukas Sedlak) quit the NHL rather than continue to play for the Flyers. (What does that tell you ....)

 

Everything I listed above happened "This season".  You want to make the argument that the FO finally kicked Fletcher to the curb in March ...fine but the damage was already done and cannot be undone.

 

The FO absolutely deserves its failing grade for this season ....... (by season the NHL Fiscal year/operating season usually runs from the beginning of July when FA begins until the end of June the following year at the conclusion of the SCF.)

 

Please list what the FO did to deserve a grade other than F.  He was fired after ~80% of the season was completed. 

 

So as I listed above, outside of Fletcher being fired, please list what "you think" the FO did to deserve a better grade?

 

Inquiring minds want to know ......

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by pilldoc

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

1. traded for/signed Deangelo

2. didn't trade JVR

3. picking up Sedlak instead of Tolvanen

4. extending Sanheim when they didn't need to

5. leaving Fletcher in control through the trade deadline, then firing him

6. year one of Ristolainen extension

7. Deslauriers

 

The "front office" didn't even hire Tortorella. They hired an outside firm to do it.

 

What did they do - aside from "fixing" a problem of their own creation by firing a guy they hired - to warrant a good grade this year?

 

great minds think alike ..... did not even see your post as I was busy composing mine at the same time.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

But back to the report card - this season, the front office. Everybody is giving them an F (or worse). Why? What exactly did they do this season that warrants a failing grade? Ninety-nine percent of the damage was done 4 years ago when they hired that doofus to manage the Flyers. This season they finally canned his dumb ass.

 

What else? They promoted Briere to interim GM. Now maybe that's a "meh," ex-Flyer and all. Fair enough. But based on what he said in his first presser it sounds like the Flyers' management is entering a new era. The "subtraction" that Tortorella (and Briere) said was coming was explicitly about the players but I think we can at least hope it refers to the senior advisors as well.

 

 

 

This season...

signed DesLauriers for FOUR years. Brilliant.

Signed Sanheim for EIGHT years. Brilliant.

Traded a 2nd, 3rd and 4th for free agent Tony Deangelo to help replace the lost offence when he gave away Ghost and a 2nd. Signed Deangelo for 2 years. Genius.

Unable to trade JVR at deadline, because...stupid.

Refuses to trade Seeler at deadline because he's an integral part of the team. Nick Seeler.

NOT firing Fletcher before the trade deadline when everyone in the entire hockey world except the Flyers front office saw what a complete idiot he was and what a terrible job he was doing. 

 

When the greatest thing the front office does all year is finally fire the moron they hired when it was so blatantly obvious he should have been fired ages ago, but...old boys club...they hardly deserve a pat on the back. They deserve to be tarred and feathered.

 

And then there's the list of potential replacements for president...Mellanby ex-Flyer...Shero, ex Flyers son...Poulin, ex-Flyer. Nice to see they've learned from all their previous mistakes of using this hiring process.

Oh ya, and Doug Wilson, whos GMed the Sharks out of the playoffs the last 4 seasons. 

 

I mean seriously, can our front office be any worse?

 

edit: I see this was already covered for the most part by radoran and pilldoc....great minds indeed!

Edited April 26, 2023 by flyercanuck

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

And then there's the list of potential replacements for president...Mellanby ex-Flyer...Shero, ex Flyers son...Poulin, ex-Flyer. Nice to see they've learned from all their previous mistakes of using this hiring process.

Oh ya, and Doug Wilson, whos GMed the Sharks out of the playoffs the last 4 seasons

 

Don't even get me started on this ........  this has potential disaster written all over it .......

 

"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it." - Winston Churchill

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." - Edmund Burke

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by pilldoc

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Oh sure "anyone can say anything" but words matter. What Briere said about the senior advisors has never been said by anyone in the Flyers org. "I'm not sure what will happen with them" is unprecedented. To many of us that's a clear signal that more Big Changes in management are coming.

 

After hearing that I won't be surprised if Clarke, Holmgren, Barber and Lombardi all end their tenure this summer one way or another.

Do words matter? In todays sports, not really. These front office types, as well as players, more often than not give the boilerplate responses. Sometimes, they outright lie. So when something is said, its hollow until an action occurs to give it substance. Is what Briere said impactful? Maybe. But like you said, only because we fans have not heard that before. It doesn't mean anything until a change occurs. And lets not overlook the fact that DB is new at this. Is it possible what he said was a "flub", or taken out of context. If so, then it means even less than nothing. Here's what I look at, if DB's words meant something, why haven't any of these "changes" occured? What exactly are they waiting for? Its not like any of these positions will have an impact on who the sign, draft or trade for. It won't make a difference to whomever they hire as president of ops, unless that person happens to insist they are removed.

 

I want the changes you want. I just wont believe it until I see it

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

this season, the front office. Everybody is giving them an F (or worse). Why? What exactly did they do this season that warrants a failing grade?

because they did nothing to remove the existing "F"

[mojo1917]

@flyercanuck

 

Didn't Doug Wilson GM them into perennial Western Conference Contender before trying to "win one with this group" kinda ruined his reputation and the team?

 

He was there for like 12 years- right?

 

I think in some cases, trying to scaffold an aging core,for whatever reason,  can really mess a team up.

The Pens have zero prospects trying to get Malkin_Crosby_Letang another crack at the ring.

 

I don't know that I think it's fair if the whole of Wilson's tenure is judged on the lapses made trying to get Jumbo and Marleau another crack at the title. 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

@flyercanuck

 

Didn't Doug Wilson GM them into perennial Western Conference Contender before trying to "win one with this group" kinda ruined his reputation and the team?

 

He was there for like 12 years- right?

 

I think in some cases, trying to scaffold an aging core,for whatever reason,  can really mess a team up.

The Pens have zero prospects trying to get Malkin_Crosby_Letang another crack at the ring.

 

I don't know that I think it's fair if the whole of Wilson's tenure is judged on the lapses made trying to get Jumbo and Marleau another crack at the title. 

 

 

 

I don't judge his entire tenure on his last 4 years. He was a very good GM. Maybe he could be a good GM again. But the guy you're hiring right now is the guy who's team hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years. 

[radoran]

37 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I want the changes you want. I just wont believe it until I see it

 

It really boils down to this and just this.

 

I'm in total "show me" mode at the moment.

 

I need to see a lot more before I'm on board with this being a "new way."

 

The pieces are there for it to be, but there are still (many of) the old pieces there as well...

[flyercanuck]

19 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

It really boils down to this and just this.

 

I'm in total "show me" mode at the moment.

 

I need to see a lot more before I'm on board with this being a "new way."

 

The pieces are there for it to be, but there are still (many of) the old pieces there as well...

 

Ya, bringing in an ex-Flyer, who hints things may be different...then hearing they're looking at more ex-Flyers and ex-Flyer sons for upper management just says its more of the same old bs. And until they prove it isn't, it is. 

[mojo1917]

I know the last name is wrong for many, but Rejean Shero would be a fine POHO IMO.

I really wanted to type that.

He won with the Pens, he did a pretty okay job with the ****** Devils.

I think he has a pretty impressive resume' and I would not let the fact that he's Fred Shero's son detract from his accomplishments.

He made shrewd trades to get Pgh to the promised land.  His fingerprints are on this current, pretty damn good Devils team.

 

His experience isn't learning from Homer and Clarke it's from outside. Like from successful hated rivals, I don't see where he should be dismissed out of hand because of five letters organized in a certain way.

 

[radoran]

All organizations hire ex-players.

 

It's not about hiring ex-players, it's about who those ex-players are and what those ex-players do.

 

Being an ex-player in and of itself is not a problem.

 

The way the Flyers have done it has been a problem.

 

Again a matter of seeing that things have actually changed.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

He won with the Pens, he did a pretty okay job with the ****** Devils.

I think he has a pretty impressive resume' and I would not let the fact that he's Fred Shero's son detract from his accomplishments.

 

 

 

He was "spotted" Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin with the Pens. In 8 seasons as GM he won one cup, with arguably 2 of the top 3 players in the league and what seemed like a league that really wanted them to win. 

Rutherford won 2 cups with that team in 3 years. I'm not going out on too big of a limb to guess without Crosby and Malkin, who he had nothing to do with acquiring, he wouldn't have won squat in Pittsburgh. 

 

He'll be "spotted" Kevin Hayes and Rasmus Ristolainen in Philly. 

 

You could do worse than Shero. Pretty sure you could do better. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, CoachX said:

because they did nothing to remove the existing "F"

 

 

New Flyers Employee Tells Reporter 'You Should Quit While You're Ahead, You Have No ******* Idea'

 

https://www.flyersinsider.com/New-Flyers-Employee-Tells-Reporter-You-Should-Quit-While-Youre-Ahead-You-Have-No-Fcking-Idea-229521