OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: decide the player you want, then (over)pay whatever price it took to get them. Where did I once say over pay? I don't know what the fair market value is for the #2 but Fantilli is a top line center they need. Be aggressive it is a rebuild and it will take a few years so go get the guy now. 6 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: I don't see this team finishing between 10th and 12th next year unless they find a #1 defenseman and a #1 center loitering outside the Wells Fargo Center. I am fine with this. Sure whatever but we have seen it time ans time again they can get inside the top 3 no matter how bad they suck and if they do you get robbed see JVR or even get the #1 and wide up with Nolan Patrick. Fantilli is there for the taking you just need to be aggressive and go get the kid you said you want to rebuild then sounds scared when it is time to go rebuild. You're a fence sitter. I get it. There are many like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 You guys are seriously thinking of trading Hart plus both our 1R picks (and was there more?) to get the #2 pick? Wow. I think I’d prefer the joke trade I proposed earlier bc that is nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Where did I once say over pay? I don't know what the fair market value is for the #2 but Fantilli is a top line center they need. Be aggressive it is a rebuild and it will take a few years so go get the guy now. Sure whatever but we have seen it time ans time again they can get inside the top 3 no matter how bad they suck and if they do you get robbed see JVR or even get the #1 and wide up with Nolan Patrick. Fantilli is there for the taking you just need to be aggressive and go get the kid you said you want to rebuild then sounds scared when it is time to go rebuild. You're a fence sitter. I get it. There are many like you. You're just another Flyer fan that isn't patient enough for a real rebuild. Fantilli is your new shiny toy this offseason. There are many like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 46 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: For what and when to use? We all said they will never get inside the top 3 so now is your chance to go get Fantilli - why wait for later? Go get him now. Then may finish somewhere between 10th and 12th next year and there is no telling about the next draft. Be aggressive now. Howie Roseman aggressive! I just don't see this as a Howie move, though. I see it as desperation. More a Redskins...er... Commander....er.... Football team ...er... What day is it?....move. If they trade Hart for another first rounder, teens or better, plus a 2nd/good prospect I'd entertain the 7th/22nd for 2nd. With some other sweetener, if necessary. But I'm okay with 7th, 22nd, and what we get from Hart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 If we trade Hart, and end up with 15/47 (random) and end up with 7, 15, 22, 47 (or prospect) I'm good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: You're just another Flyer fan that isn't patient enough for a real rebuild. Fantilli is your new shiny toy this offseason. There are many like you. Nothing about shiny to do with it. He is your guy for a weak position which is center your problem is you're a know it all and if it doesn't align with your idea it's wrong the is no one way to rebuild this team. Whatever comes out your mouth is negative or belittling someone else idea the internet is choke full of your type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: So this is a article from the Athletic a few years ago and approximate worth of Draft picks. Unfortunately there is no cut and dry value as there is in the NFL. This is fairly close. So #2 overall is worth 12.3 Flyers #7 = 7.1 Flyers #22 = 3.7 That total is 10.8. Slightly under what the #2 pick is worth. So the Flyers would have to sweeten the pot, IMHO, in order for even the Ducks to listen. 43 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I don't know what the fair market value is for the #2 but Fantilli is a top line center they need. See my post listed above this quote ...... No way is this an accurate assessment of the the #2 pick .. but a good starting point for discussion sake. The Ducks might want a Kings Ransom for the Bedard consolation prize. How much are you willing to give up in order to move up to #2 overall? The price may be too steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I'd entertain the 7th/22nd for 2nd As pilldoc laid it out it isn't enough. So if you want the guy you are going to have to give up more maybe it doesn't have to be Hart but Fantilli is just the type of center they need there is no guarantee you have a chance later to even get that type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: So this is a article from the Athletic a few years ago and approximate worth of Draft picks. Unfortunately there is no cut and dry value as there is in the NFL. This is fairly close. So #2 overall is worth 12.3 Flyers #7 = 7.1 Flyers #22 = 3.7 That total is 10.8. Slightly under what the #2 pick is worth. So the Flyers would have to sweeten the pot, IMHO, in order for even the Ducks to listen. My heart loves the idea about moving up to nab Fantilli as he is a GREAT consolation prize to Bedard. However, my head is siding with @ruxpin in keeping those picks to start gathering draft Capital. Now "IF" Hart is traded and the net return is more 1st round draft picks for THIS draft, then I might consider a package in maybe moving up. Too many variable in play at the moment. It is a great discussion point though ....... 26 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I just don't see this as a Howie move, though. I see it as desperation. More a Redskins...er... Commander....er.... Football team ...er... What day is it?....move. If they trade Hart for another first rounder, teens or better, plus a 2nd/good prospect I'd entertain the 7th/22nd for 2nd. With some other sweetener, if necessary. But I'm okay with 7th, 22nd, and what we get from Hart. 22 minutes ago, ruxpin said: If we trade Hart, and end up with 15/47 (random) and end up with 7, 15, 22, 47 (or prospect) I'm good. @ruxpin ...your thoughts are pretty much what I am thinking ....... Funny ... Hart has not even been traded yet ....we have NO idea what the value is coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, pilldoc said: See my post listed above this quote ...... No way is this an accurate assessment of the the #2 pick .. but a good starting point for discussion sake. The Ducks might want a Kings Ransom for the Bedard consolation prize. How much are you willing to give up in order to move up to #2 overall? The price may be too steep. See I just told rux it ain't enough. Depends on what they are asking only so much you can do with hypotheticals. Bottom like if Fantilli is you guys go get him just like Danny said you have to give up something of value to get him. An for all we know the Ducks are set on him. But there are many different scenarios of options you can put together. Just be aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: but Fantilli is just the type of center they need No argument here, but the question needs to be asked .....how much are you willing to give up? Besides...the Ducks might not even listen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pilldoc said: @ruxpin ...your thoughts are pretty much what I am thinking ....... Funny ... Hart has not even been traded yet ....we have NO idea what the value is coming back. And none of those guys will be of Fantilli caliber so make a swing now stop waiting for all this talent to go somewhere else and you are stuck with hand full of magic beans. Edited June 8, 2023 by OccamsRazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And none of those guys will be of Fantilli caliber so make a swing now stop waiting for all this talent to go somewhere else and you are stuck with hand full of magic beans. Again ... not arguing the value of Fantilli ..... however, what good is a player of his caliber if you can't surround him with other players due to lack of picks moving other quality players ..... Just an exercise here of thinking outside the box and playing devil's advocate before going all in with guns a blazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Again ... not arguing the value of Fantilli ..... however, what good is a player of his caliber if you can't surround him with other players due to lack of picks moving other quality players ..... It is just going into year two of a rebuild 2 1st round picks next year and 3 2nd round picks next season. Farabee-Fantilli-Konecny Desnoyers-Coots-Tippett Cates-Frost-Foerster ND-Lacynski-Allison Explain to me what I am missing about building around this guy. You still need room for Cutter Laughton Brink and a few more. Only argument to me is that forward group would be stacked to soon. Edited June 8, 2023 by OccamsRazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: It is just going into year two of a rebuild 2 1st round picks next year and 3 2nd round picks next season. Farabee-Fantilli-Konecny Desnoyers-Coots-Tippett Cates-Frost-Foerster ND-Lacynski-Allison Explain to me what I am missing about building around this guy. You still need room for Cutter Laughton Brink and a few more. Only argument to me is that forward group would be stacked to soon. you never answered my question…. How much are you willing to overpay…. Ducks have Gibson, who, as pointed out to me, has an impossible contract to move. Ducks will be asking for legit forward prospects back. Honestly… IMHO the Ducks are not trading #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 36 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Depends on what they are asking only so much you can do with hypotheticals. @pilldoc I answered you right here. Give me a request and then I can answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Ducks have Gibson, who, as pointed out to me, has an impossible contract to move. As I said it doesn't have to be Hart but they have 40 mill in cap space so wouldn't even have to do anything immediately. For example you could off them Konecny instead and improvement over Vatrano at RW and arguable Terry too but for arguments sake TK in the offer. You still have 1 1st next season. 3 2nd rounders too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: @pilldoc I answered you right here. Give me a request and then I can answer. we are going around in circles here…. For the time being we will agree to disagree for the time being….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 Just now, pilldoc said: we are going around in circles here…. For the time being we will agree to disagree for the time being….. How about this what in your mind is an overpay first then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 46 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: As pilldoc laid it out it isn't enough. So if you want the guy you are going to have to give up more maybe it doesn't have to be Hart but Fantilli is just the type of center they need there is no guarantee you have a chance later to even get that type of guy. I don't do it. And the ducks have Gibson on an albatross contract for 4 more years i don't know what they do with Hart, who is RFA next year I just don't think it makes the slightest bit if sense for either team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 30 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: It is just going into year two of a rebuild 2 1st round picks next year and 3 2nd round picks next season. Farabee-Fantilli-Konecny Desnoyers-Coots-Tippett Cates-Frost-Foerster ND-Lacynski-Allison @pilldoc Is this not enough to build around the kid? You haven't even added Cutter or Brink yet. Ok swap out TK instead. Farabee-Fantilli-Tippett Desnoyers-Coots-Foerster Cates-Frost-Allison ND-Lacynski-Brink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I don't do it. And the ducks have Gibson on an albatross contract for 4 more years i don't know what they do with Hart, who is RFA next year I just don't think it makes the slightest bit if sense for either team. I said swap TK out for Hart they need RW help. Doesn't have to be Hart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: As I said it doesn't have to be Hart but they have 40 mill in cap space so wouldn't even have to do anything immediately. For example you could off them Konecny instead and improvement over Vatrano at RW and arguable Terry too but for arguments sake TK in the offer. You still have 1 1st next season. 3 2nd rounders too. Let me ask you, though. Do you trade the #2 for a deal featuring Konecny? We're praising him because he scored 61 points this year. I realize it was in 60 games, but a word of wisdom: you can't prorate. I don't think the Ducks go from being ripped off of first overall to trading for a right winger with two teaser seasons. Outside of Konecny, which I agree is the best option behind Carter in terms of bait, I don't think it's there. I don't want to trade Hart and picks for a trade up. I want to get assets for him if I'm being forced to move him. Fun to kill an evening talking about though. Edited June 8, 2023 by ruxpin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I said swap TK out for Hart they need RW help. Doesn't have to be Hart. Yeah, saw the after my post. Just responded in another. They could use right wing depth, but Terry produces very similarly but without the penalties. I'd take Konecny over Terry but not enough for 2nd overall...a seemingly sure thing Edited June 8, 2023 by ruxpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, ruxpin said: Let me ask you, though. Do you trade the #2 for a deal featuring Konecny? We're praising him because he scored 61 points this year. I realize it was in 60 games, but a word of wisdom: you can't prorate. I don't think the Ducks go from being ripped off of first overall to trading for a right winger with two teaser seasons. Outside of Konecny, which I agree is the best option behind Carter in terms of bait, I don't think it's there. I don't want to read Hart and picks for a trade up. I want to get assets for him if I'm being forced to move him. Fun to kill an evening talking about though. Sure Konecny is younger Vatrano by 3 years and has 40 goal scoring potential and has a good contract. I am confused are you trying devalue TK? I can't read what the Ducks are thinking/doing this is all just for conversations sake. People are asking me questions I can't answer here i just brain storming so I am done with this talk after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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