OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 For what it's worth... ...guess we'll see soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) Massive eh? I am a little nervous about trading away Hart for all the reasons stated in that Sommermann quote. You may not need a Brodeur / Vasilevsky type to win in the POs but you have to have competent goaltending. The Flyers tried it w/out that and got to G6. The run was remarkable and historic but it fell short mostly - not exclusively but mostly - due to weak goaltending. Yes I realize the Flyers are nowhere near ready for a run to the Finals. But that's a reason to keep Hart not trade him, i.e. he turns 25 in August. While you can certainly get a good return for him I'd rather not add to the list of things that need fixing. So unless "massive" includes another proven #1 who's still under 25... edit: Please no reclamation projects in net while the Flyers are trying to rebuild the roster. A young hotshot? Sure maybe. But no damn retreads looking for a change of scenery. As everyone knows Philly is not hospitable to goalies. Hart has done well. Might be best to leave well enough alone. Edited June 7, 2023 by GratefulFlyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) Everything needs fixing right now. Hart isn't a sure thing, even with a better team in front of him. Even in 2020 he ran hot and cold in the playoffs. They need more assets and have limited ways to obtain them. I could see keeping Hart If the Flyers were a team that had missed the playoffs after a couple of deep playoff runs and were reloading for another run. What is 29 year old Hart going to look like? Impossible to predict. Edited June 7, 2023 by SCFlyguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 I get your point - impossible to predict what Future Hart will be like. Guess what? That applies to the guy you bring in too. Hart is far and away the best goalie the Flyers have had in many years, since Bobrovsky I'd say. I don't see goaltending as an area that needs fixing and I'm surprised you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 @GratefulFlyers I think Sam Ersson is almost as talented as Carter Hart. I also think Ersson has more dawg in him. That kid played well and said a lot of good things when he was with the big club last season. The biggest bright spot for me was his best game came after a shellacking by Carolina ( I think) where he was hung out to dry all night and left in the net. He didn't pout in fact, he wanted to fight those guys....I love that compete level. I really liked what I saw from him. Carter is a known quantity and he's very good and all, but the drop-off between him and Ersson isn't all that steep. So, I don't think the Flyers (if they hold on to Ersson) will be without competent goaltending. I think Ersson can be at least that at the NHL level. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 I want the Flyers to have the worst goaltending in the league for the next 2 or even 3 years. BITFU baby, BITFU. Would much rather draft 1 2 or 3 than 7. Do I want to trade Hart, as he is the first quasi normal goalie in decades, no. Is it good asset management at this moment in time, yes. Provided the return has excellent value. I just hope Danny B saves some magic to get rid of Hayes, Atkinson, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, flyer4ever said: I just hope Danny B saves some magic to get rid of Hayes, Atkinson, etc. Amen to that. Keep subtracting Danny your work has just begun... 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: So, I don't think the Flyers (if they hold on to Ersson) will be without competent goaltending. I think Ersson can be at least that at the NHL level. I think so too and I was impressed by Ersson's couple starts as well - the bounce back he showed after getting shellacked in his first start was great to see. Still, it's an awfully small sample size. 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Carter is a known quantity and he's very good I take this out of context to highlight why keeping Hart is important for the rebuild: because he is a known quantity. Briere should concentrate on getting rid of Hayes and Ristolainen. Tell Montreal they can have Hart but they have to take those 2 clowns as well - ha! Edited June 7, 2023 by GratefulFlyers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: Tell Montreal they can have Hart but they have to take those 2 clowns as well - ha! This is tempting but really not the way I want to go about it. IF we're going to lose Hart, I really hope it's not as a bribe to get rid of Fletcher's trash. I'm okay if one or both is here next year and moved at the deadline. The cap is really of little concern next year and we're not going to be very good either way. If either or both hurt our record it's probably to our benefit. But a competent GM can get them moved at the deadline. If we are going to trade Hart, I want it to be for a backed up Brinks truckfull of assets. At least one first rounder and for this draft. Plus. Plus. There's no pertinent need to trade Hart, so if you don't get a suitable price, you keep your best asset. Again, I completely get the above and it's really tempting, but I guess ultimately I hold the two until I have a more equitable position to deal from. (btw, those here who play fantasy hockey with me are laughing their [tuchuses] off right now) Edited June 7, 2023 by ruxpin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: Briere should concentrate on getting rid of Hayes and Ristolainen. Tell Montreal they can have Hart but they have to take those 2 clowns as well - ha! This is such a dumb idea, it makes me think you hate the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/6/2023 at 12:16 PM, flyer4ever said: So, the Kings, who lacked goaltending give up on their #1 goalie prospect, and throw in a 28 yr old bottom pair dman. Flyers give away their top pairing dman. This is a deja vu Flyer trade. How is this the new Flyers? Looks a lot like the last 13 years Flyers. IF this is the start of the BITFU I am okay with it. Somehow I don't think it is. Provorov should have been worth much much more than a prospect and a has been. Has Danny B already drank the kool aid? Depending on how a person values Provorov, the asset return is worse than what you say. Peterson is far too old to be viewed as a prospect, and Walker has spent the entirety of his career delivering among the worst results on the Kings blueline. Fair or not, when you play key minutes on bad teams, giving up a lot more than you get, it tends to lower your value around the league. Personally, I think it's fair: Provorov has also spent years delivering some of the worst results on his own blueline. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 It should get really interesting and if he is moved i wouldn't expect it till the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 HHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Not interested. I would trade back before I traded up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Just now, SCFlyguy said: Not interested. I would trade back before I traded up. Yeah, I'm not involving Hart + 1st rounder OR just both first round picks to move up unless it's with Chicago. I'd pause for Anaheim's pick, but I don't think Hart would be involved in that. I'd rather go for volume at this point, so trading back with Buffalo and getting their 13 and their 2nd rounder (#39) if they want to move up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Maybe both (trade Hart for multiple picks and trade back). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 26 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I'd pause for Anaheim's pick, but I don't think Hart would be involved in that. You could trade Hart, #7 and #22 for #2 pick i think if they would bite on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Just a question, it's that a good value for the team? Is their #2 guy on the board worth all that? @OccamsRazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Just a question, it's that a good value for the team? Is their #2 guy on the board worth all that? @OccamsRazor I can't say but it could be the start of negations - i'm not suggesting this is it take it or leave it but first identify the guy you want and now make the trade to go get him. I really really like Fantilli...and who loved to get him...Duck need a few different pieces and well the #7 and #22 would help them get some good pieces too. They have been rumored since mind season this past year of looking at moving on from Gibson and well with 40 mill in cap space they wouldn't even have to make a move now if they didn't want too. As we said Danny has to get creative and think out side the box sounds like he is listening to his scouts and should still seek council on all his moves. Hart #7 and #22 is a great starting point...so work it on from there. The more competition you have for Hart services the better off you are that is why Danny put it out there to make us an offer we have to listen...but doesn't limit you to sitting back and waiting for them to make a move Danny can pick the phone up too. Best leverage is the Flyers DON'T have to move Hart. Maintain leverage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, ruxpin said: Again, I completely get the above and it's really tempting, but I guess ultimately I hold the two until I have a more equitable position to deal from. (btw, those here who play fantasy hockey with me are laughing their [tuchuses] off right now) LOL ..... oh we know you all to well ... Edited June 7, 2023 by pilldoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 44 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: You could trade Hart, #7 and #22 for #2 pick i think if they would bite on that. They probably would. I'm not doing it, though. I'm going for volume. So keep the two firsts and trade Hart for more. Trade the 7th with an early teen plus a 2nd or a late first and a serious prospect. Next year won't be good so we'll still have a top 10 pick next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: i'm not suggesting this is it take it or leave it but first identify the guy you want and now make the trade to go get him. Lmfao, this is straight out of the foreword of Paul Holmgren's book on being a GM. Who cares what the cost is? Get your man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 50 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Just a question, it's that a good value for the team? Is their #2 guy on the board worth all that? @OccamsRazor So this is a article from the Athletic a few years ago and approximate worth of Draft picks. Unfortunately there is no cut and dry value as there is in the NFL. This is fairly close. So #2 overall is worth 12.3 Flyers #7 = 7.1 Flyers #22 = 3.7 That total is 10.8. Slightly under what the #2 pick is worth. So the Flyers would have to sweeten the pot, IMHO, in order for even the Ducks to listen. My heart loves the idea about moving up to nab Fantilli as he is a GREAT consolation prize to Bedard. However, my head is siding with @ruxpin in keeping those picks to start gathering draft Capital. Now "IF" Hart is traded and the net return is more 1st round draft picks for THIS draft, then I might consider a package in maybe moving up. Too many variable in play at the moment. It is a great discussion point though ....... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 20 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: Lmfao, this is straight out of the foreword of Paul Holmgren's book on being a GM. Who cares what the cost is? Get your man. Wait which is the first sentence or the 2nd. Never seen a fence walker quiet like you. You're not a politician by chance are. The 2nd part is exactly what I said get the center and the offer was the starting point very confusing response by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, pilldoc said: However, my head is siding with @ruxpin in keeping those picks to start gathering draft Capital. For what and when to use? We all said they will never get inside the top 3 so now is your chance to go get Fantilli - why wait for later? Go get him now. Then may finish somewhere between 10th and 12th next year and there is no telling about the next draft. Be aggressive now. Howie Roseman aggressive! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Wait which is the first sentence or the 2nd. Never seen a fence walker quiet like you. You're not a politician by chance are. The 2nd part is exactly what I said get the center and the offer was the starting point very confusing response by you. Sorry, it was confusing. I was saying that you were suggesting a strategy straight out of the Paul Holmgren playbook: decide the player you want, then (over)pay whatever price it took to get them. 13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Then may finish somewhere between 10th and 12th next year and there is no telling about the next draft. I don't see this team finishing between 10th and 12th next year unless they find a #1 defenseman and a #1 center loitering outside the Wells Fargo Center. I am fine with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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