ruxpin Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Hart would definitely be an upgrade over Murray, since the guy is always injured. Sadly for the Flyers, that would describe many goalies that would not require trading Matthews. Pretending the Leafs have to trade Matthews, they can get a better deal than the Flyers should be willing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, ruxpin said: they can get a better deal than the Flyers should be willing to do. That is the best way of putting it I think. In fact if I am the Yotes I would give them a blank check on what it would take to get their local boy back in the desert. Because then you'd know if he can bring excitement to the desert then noone will and it is time to move the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: Just thinking outside the box ... I have no idea what the Leafs are going to do. Just thinking on ways "they" might be able to keep Matthews ...that is all I got. Right Tavares has a full active NMC. If he's going somewhere, it's because he wants to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 4 hours ago, radoran said: Right Tavares has a full active NMC. If he's going somewhere, it's because he wants to go. yeah … i kind of forgot that part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 19 hours ago, SCFlyguy said: Trading Hayes and Ristolainen will cost assets and make them better in the short term and worse in the long term, just like nearly every move they’ve made in the last 15-20 years. If you want more of the same, do this. I don’t follow you. Putting aside what it may cost in assets to move them (I agree with your later post you can’t give away picks to make it happen but I doubt that’ll be necessary) are you saying you want to keep these 2? How can losing them possibly make the Flyers “worse in the long term” ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 re: Carter Hart yes his numbers basically suck but I attribute 90% of that to the skaters. He’s by far the best goalie the Flyers have had since Bobrovsky and while it can be argued you don’t need an elite goaltender to win PO rounds I’d much prefer keeping him as the next best thing to “elite.” put another way, does anyone really see him as one of the Flyers problems that need attention? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: How can losing them possibly make the Flyers “worse in the long term” ? Spending draft capital to remove problems means you don't have the draft capital to build on long term. An example is not having a 2nd rounder for the next two drafts. A bigger example is Tronno with five picks in the first four rounds over the next three years. The Leafs at least we're pursuing actual playoff success but their long term prospects are certainly hindered by their draft situation. That makes a deal where you get significant draft capital back more attractive. Thankfully, the Flyers don't really have the draft capital to spend on moving players and doing a rebuild "the right way" so it's actually more likely that the "problems" stay on the roster until they age out. They don't expect to make the playoffs next season so there's less of an imperative to "do something" RightNow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: put another way, does anyone really see him as one of the Flyers problems that need attention? He's not "a problem" - he's an asset. If you can maximize value in an asset, you do it. Do you trade Hart for McDavid? Bedard? If so, then we're just talking about the appropriate price for an asset. If not... Having an "elite" goalie on a team going no where makes you Montreal. And this team is likely going nowhere for at least a couple years now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: I don’t follow you. Putting aside what it may cost in assets to move them (I agree with your later post you can’t give away picks to make it happen but I doubt that’ll be necessary) are you saying you want to keep these 2? How can losing them possibly make the Flyers “worse in the long term” ? Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? 29 minutes ago, radoran said: Spending draft capital to remove problems means you don't have the draft capital to build on long term. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Edited May 31, 2023 by SCFlyguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Carter Hart hasn't achieved "elite" status. He won't do this until he is traded to another team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? I was confused by your earlier post but this one has taken me to a whole new (lower) level. edit: I guess you mean you wanna keep Mr. All-Star and also the anchor weighting down the back end. Then again you could mean almost anything at this point lol. Edited May 31, 2023 by GratefulFlyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 50 minutes ago, CoachX said: Carter Hart hasn't achieved "elite" status. He won't do this until he is traded to another team For all the Bob love, I don't think Flyers fans would have had the patience to get to this point when the $10M goalie put up 3.23/.900 in his first year with 3.07/.901 in the playoffs (0-4). Then 2.91/.906 with a 5.33/.841 playoffs. And even this year was 3.07/.901 in the regular season and lost his job down the stretch to Alex Lyon. Dude is having his one hot impactful streak in four years at $10M a pop with two more to go. Obviously if they win the Cup this year, it's "worth it" but Carter Hart had better numbers - on worse teams - in two of the four years and his one playoff appearance (2.23/.926) came when Bob was 3.07/.901. I'd say behind an even slightly better defense, Hart looks much better. I'll wager that's why Jonsey is talking about building the defense and Danny is saying Hart is the likely goalie of the future. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 24 minutes ago, radoran said: For all the Bob love, I don't think Flyers fans would have had the patience to get to this point But at least they got a haul for him. I mean look at the illustrious careers of Anthony Stolarz and Taylor Leir... ...oh wait a minute!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But at least they got a haul for him. I mean look at the illustrious careers of Anthony Stolarz and Taylor Leir... ...oh wait a minute!!!! LA's 4th that they got in the deal was traded for the return of Simon Gagne. True story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But at least they got a haul for him. I mean look at the illustrious careers of Anthony Stolarz and Taylor Leir... ...oh wait a minute!!!! You just had to go there ....didn't you. (SMH) ------chuckling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) On 5/29/2023 at 10:07 AM, CoachX said: I dont think any team is mortgaging the farm to get him today. At the 2013 draft the Devils gave up the 9th overall pick (Bo Horvat) for Corey Schneider. So that is all I remember off the top of my head. But I would need more than that to move Hart. Edited May 31, 2023 by OccamsRazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 hours ago, radoran said: And this team is likely going nowhere for at least a couple years now. right and that's kind of my point because I agree "a couple years" sounds about right. Hart is young enough to still be in his prime if the Flyers can get it together in say 3 years. 3 hours ago, radoran said: Spending draft capital to remove problems means you don't have the draft capital to build on long term. I - and others - have already stipulated we shouldn't spend draft picks to move Hayes or to move anyone else for that matter. Hayes can probably get picked up at $4 or $5mil and Ristolainen at $3.5mil is a lot more feasible - not "attractive" by any means but feasible. Under no circumstances should Briere consider sending anything besides a reduced salary - for either one of them. 1 hour ago, radoran said: I'll wager that's why Jonsey is talking about building the defense and Danny is saying Hart is the likely goalie of the future. If that's the word out of Flyers' management I'm happy to hear it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: I - and others - have already stipulated we shouldn't spend draft picks to move Hayes or to move anyone else for that matter. Hayes can probably get picked up at $4 or $5mil and Ristolainen at $3.5mil is a lot more feasible - not "attractive" by any means but feasible. They can - and should - retain half of both and get what they can for them. Past salary dumps have cost to accomplish. And Hayes can reject 12 teams. If they can't find a taker for Hayes, I'd buy him out. Less so with Ristolainen, but after next year we'll revisit the convo. (Along those lines, why the h-e-double-hockey-sticks do Deslaurier and Sanheim have NTCs???) 11 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: If that's the word out of Flyers' management I'm happy to hear it. Briere said he believed Hart was goalie of the future on the same radio show he made headlines for saying he'd consider trading Hart for the right offer. People can have both opinions Jones recently told The Daily Faceoff about defense: “The blue line, to me is the most important thing. We want to have a really advanced back end.” Which relates back to Ristolainen for four more years and Sanehim for eight while actively interested in moving their top defenseman. There's a lot of cleaning up to do. If Sanheim doesn't live up to that contract, it's more of a problem than it isn't. Cleaning starts in earnest after the Cup is lifted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: I - and others - have already stipulated we shouldn't spend draft picks to move Hayes or to move anyone else for that matter. Hayes can probably get picked up at $4 or $5mil and Ristolainen at $3.5mil is a lot more feasible - not "attractive" by any means but feasible. Under no circumstances should Briere consider sending anything besides a reduced salary - for either one of them. I will believe this when it happens. People wanted the same with JVR and Andrew MacDonald and every year of their contracts they suited up for the Flyers. just because you want them off the team doesn’t mean someone wants to accommodate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, radoran said: Jones recently told The Daily Faceoff about defense: “The blue line, to me is the most important thing. We want to have a really advanced back end.” ah yes thanks for the reminder I did hear that…still wondering how that squares with keeping Ristolainen on the roster… You mentioned Sanheim. Of all the Fletcher Fkups this was hardly the worst but it was still a big mistake extending him for so many years. I like Sanheim a lot. I think he is (or can be) perfect for today’s NHL. He’s a great skater and not just in open ice but he can deke and maintain control attacking the net. It’s no secret that teams these days need their blueliners to contribute goals and not just assists. Like Provorov I (want to) believe as the Flyers prune away the really bad-at-their-job players these two will not only “find their games” but truly excel and become important pieces for the team. Sanheim has to get consistently productive (40+ pts/season) and I’m not sure he can do that skating alongside Ristolainen. It seems to me pairing him with Ristolainen all but guarantees Sanheim will remain what he is now, woefully inconsistent offensively and barely good enough defensively. Edited May 31, 2023 by GratefulFlyers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: still wondering how that squares with keeping Ristolainen on the roster… They're not going to have a top line blue line next season. Or maybe the season after that. But Ristolainen is not an egregious buyout candidate, especially after next season. 4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Of all the Fletcher Fkups this was hardly the worst but it was still a big mistake extending him for so many years. Much like Voracek, they extended a guy a year early that they didn't need to extend. Similar story with Couturier. Difference being that Couturier had actually accomplished something in this league while Sanheim remains the same (or worse) than he was when he started. You don't pay a player at 27 based on the player you want him to be, you pay him based on who he is. They essentially locked down a guy until age 35 who has 20 career playoff games and has never scored 40 points while playing for a team that's been out of the playoffs for four of his six NHL seasons. It's great to show faith in your players. Showing eight years at prime money of faith in a guy who simply didn't/doesn't/probably won't warrant it was a MacDonaldian fkup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 6 hours ago, radoran said: eight years at prime money the money isn’t outrageously out of line provided he scores some goals and drives play on a regular basis. But yeah the 8 years … because … what? why? Just another in a long line of unforced errors by Fletcher and Co. The term they handed Couturier was a head scratcher too. Like you say he certainly proved his value but that was too long by half. I’m sure nobody wanted to see him walk away but the Flyers weren’t at that point yet IIRC. I guess if he comes back completely healthy there’s worse players to be stuck with …. but he’s logged some hard miles…he’ll probably be another buyout candidate in a year or three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: the money isn’t outrageously out of line It is for a guy who's never hit 40 points at 27 who you're signing a year early. 28 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Just another in a long line of unforced errors by Fletcher and Co. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. 28 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: The term they handed Couturier was a head scratcher too. It is until you also see Sanheim and Laughton. They have long time, potentially lifetime, Flyers who have achieved absolutely nothing. And they're HAPPY about it. They WANT to be here. I get that that can be a good thing. But to be perfectly happy as a player who has been here and achieved nothing to want to sign to end your career here a year early? Anyone think Sean felt a few twinges in the back leading up to this? Because I'm told that professional athletes - top line, competitive professional athletes - want to win. And I'm seeing guys who have won bupkus being perfectly happy to sign long term with a franchise in neutral, sliding backwards (where they were at the time). I don't like that. Edited June 1, 2023 by radoran 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 2 hours ago, radoran said: It is until you also see Sanheim and Laughton. 2 hours ago, radoran said: But to be perfectly happy as a player who has been here and achieved nothing Whoa...just a minute there rad....that's Scott Laughton, World Championship Gold medalist! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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