pilldoc Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Who? Exactly…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, radoran said: Who? Exaclty!!! Chuck could've had Eeli Tolvanen for free but nope he'd rather have this bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 On 6/7/2023 at 7:58 PM, pilldoc said: See my post listed above this quote ...... No way is this an accurate assessment of the the #2 pick .. but a good starting point for discussion sake. The Ducks might want a Kings Ransom for the Bedard consolation prize. How much are you willing to give up in order to move up to #2 overall? The price may be too steep. The #2 spot is cursed for the Flyers, don't do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, Cheesesteak said: The #2 spot is cursed for the Flyers, don't do it you are not wrong here….. however…. Any other year Fantilli could go #1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 I don't like buyouts either just on GP. Paying a guy not to play just sucks. When it's a guy who can't play even when he's on the roster it's even worse. But Hayes must go. If a buyout is the only way, do it. Whether it's true or not, it is "out there" that Hayes said he wouldn't play for the Flyers unless they overpaid him. Fletcher and the Brain Trust did just that. Now if the Flyers are serious about "rebuilding the right way," shedding bloated contracts and dead weight should be the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 10 hours ago, Cheesesteak said: The #2 spot is cursed for the Flyers, don't do it The 1st overall might be even cursed more for the Flyers wouldn't you say?? Could've had Makar instead they are stuck with the Ghost of Nolan Patrick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 8 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: I don't like buyouts either just on GP. Paying a guy not to play just sucks. When it's a guy who can't play even when he's on the roster it's even worse. But Hayes must go. If a buyout is the only way, do it. Whether it's true or not, it is "out there" that Hayes said he wouldn't play for the Flyers unless they overpaid him. Fletcher and the Brain Trust did just that. Now if the Flyers are serious about "rebuilding the right way," shedding bloated contracts and dead weight should be the priority. Exactly what I'm saying if you can't move him by retaining up to 50% of his salary than just buy him out. Doesn’t have a damn thing to do with saving cap space now or needing the space now. It is all about removing a cancer now before it spreads further or does more damage. They can get this ball rolling on removing dead weight. Now you are only left with having one bloated contract left to move or worse case tolerate another year. Assuming they move TDA at the draft. And in Risto spot there is a small glimmer of hope left that Shaw can continue to help him improve his defensive game which from various reports have said he did make small improvements in. Every swing at it will help. I just want to remove Hayes because we know he doesn't belong right now. Why wait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Because patience is better in the long run. But Flyers fans want everything immediately, I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 Has not a damn thing to do with patience just want to remove the cancer now before it spreads throughout the body. Cut the arm off to save a life. But hey keep staying out of touch with reality if it works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: It is all about removing a cancer now before it spreads further or does more damage. "Cancer" is a strong word but in Hayes' case it fits. Not because he's a bad guy or he's stirring up trouble in the room but because A) he can't fu--ing play! and B) he's way overpaid and that alone is cancerous to a team. Nobody wants a $7.1mil 45-pt guy but the Flyers are stuck with him. They have to correct that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 11 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Nobody wants a $7.1mil 45-pt guy but the Flyers are stuck with him. And if someone doesn't want him at even half that price WTF are going to hang onto him? I'm good biting the bullet right now to cut ties let give his roster spot to a kid who deserves it. If Coots comes back then you will be fine. CENTERS 1st Coots 2nd Frost 3rd Laughton 4th Laczynski Till they find other kids to fill in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: "Cancer" is a strong word but in Hayes' case it fits. Not because he's a bad guy or he's stirring up trouble in the room but because A) he can't fu--ing play! and B) he's way overpaid and that alone is cancerous to a team. Nobody wants a $7.1mil 45-pt guy but the Flyers are stuck with him. They have to correct that. I hated the Kevin Hayes signing so bad it made me sign up for this site. My Kevin Hayes sux bona fides are impeccable. I absolutely agree to get rid of him if it doesn't cost you anything. But I don't spend cap space on players who aren't playing for you anymore, especially if patience will get him off the cap sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said: I hated the Kevin Hayes signing so bad it made me sign up for this site. My Kevin Hayes sux bona fides are impeccable. I absolutely agree to get rid of him if it doesn't cost you anything. But I don't spend cap space on players who aren't playing for you anymore, especially if patience will get him off the cap sooner. Why pay that floating douche 7 million for three years when you can unload him and pay half the amount for three years. It's like buying a lemon car and at least getting half your $ back. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Because who cares what their cap situation is while they are going to be bad? I care about the cap situation after that, when we all hope things have turned around and they can compete again. I put that at least three years away. You could buy him out then for less of a hit as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, RonJeremy said: Why pay that floating douche 7 million for three years when you can unload him and pay half the amount for three years. It's like buying a lemon car and at least getting half your $ back. You don't do it for 3 years. It's over double what's left of his contact. It amounts to roughly $2.4M a year for the next 6 years I'd rather pay the $7M/ye while the team is going to suck anyway and maybe try to move him at a deadline with retention than have $2.4M of dead cap space when we're attempting to resign a Cam York or someone when, in theory, the team will be better. Why would you want to sandbag the team with that when they're finally getting to the place we'd like them to be? Jesus, let him help the Flyers suck while it benefits them and work to move him in other ways. Don't spread it into years where the hit might actually be remotely relevant. If there's reason to buyout in the offseason prior to his last year, it's still $2.4M/yr but only for one more year after it would have otherwise been. Still not ideal and probably a failure by Danny Jonesy, but still better than three additional. Edited June 15, 2023 by ruxpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Jesus, let him help the Flyers suck while it benefits them and work to move him in other ways. Can't do it DGAF about the cap being used up. They are going to suck for 3 years rebuilding good I'm fine with that they can do it without him too. Don't want him tainting any of the kids any more than he already has. Cut ties immediately. We just don't agree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 NGAF about the cap is how they signed him for $7M in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Can't do it DGAF about the cap being used up. They are going to suck for 3 years rebuilding good I'm fine with that they can do it without him too. Don't want him tainting any of the kids any more than he already has. Cut ties immediately. We just don't agree on this. So you're okay losing someone we suddenly can't fit under the cap because you want to pay $2.4M for his stupid ass for 3 extra years? Years 4-6 we should arguably be ready to go but we have to give someone up or not sign appropriate help because of fricken Hayes and out of sheer stupidity and impatience? You're right. We certainly disagree on this. Edited June 15, 2023 by ruxpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 I don't give a crap about the way overblown "he's gonna teach people bad stuff." First, that's crap. Second, I'm not screwing up what will hopefully be a better team because we can't figure out how to mitigate that effect or because our new GM is so incompetent he can't trade him at a deadline and can't do it without sandbagging the three additional years. It simply makes zero good sense. Or any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, ruxpin said: So you're okay losing someone we suddenly can't fit under the cap because you want to pay $2.4M for his stupid ass for 3 extra years? I'll worry about it when it happens but the money it frees up will be used to resign the guys they need to keep. And I am willing to roll that dice to not see him anymore. I think they will be much better managing the cap with Danny I have faith they won't lose anyone for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Years 4-6 we should arguably be ready to go but we have to give someone up or not sign appropriate help because of fricken Hayes and out of sheer stupidity and impatience? The last 3 years it will be 1.6 mill per year. If they can't afford some one because of that they something went way way wrong before worrying about Hayes. 6 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I don't give a crap about the way overblown "he's gonna teach people bad stuff." See we disagree. Again. I am worried about it. Better to be safe than sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 This is a very spirited debate. Let me add my two cents (which isn't worth a cent).... they will figure out a way to move Hayes without hamstringing the team. Have faith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 53 minutes ago, CoachX said: they will figure out a way to move Hayes without hamstringing the team. Have faith They'll work on that this season and buy out next season if needed. I suspect he'll be dealt. He was an All Star you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Here’s to hoping @CoachX is right. I hate the idea of buyouts, not just paying a guy to play somewhere else (most likely) but that the cap hit drags on for twice the number of remaining years. But like @OccamsRazor I worry about Hayes’ presence going forward. Not so much that he’ll influence the younger guys into emulating him but the fact that he simply can’t keep up. That’s bound to be a source of frustration. His teammates see him fumbling around, coasting his shifts and collecting his undeserved paycheck. Unless he’s seriously like the greatest guy ever it can’t help but breeding bad feelings. Or am I making too much of it? Maybe so but obviously a team has to work together and when one player either stinks at his job or has a crappy “I won’t play for them unless they overpay me” attitude* it’s not good. I say get rid of the guy and use a buyout if that’s the only way, as a last resort. *allegedly Edited June 16, 2023 by GratefulFlyers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 28 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Here’s to hoping @CoachX is right The next time I'm wrong, will be a first I thought everyone knew this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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