flyercanuck Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Chuck Fletcher anyone??? We wish someone else could be dumb enough to hire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Chuck Fletcher anyone??? Oh man that would be too incredibly great wouldn't it. We could trade them Risto for a bunch of second rounders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 23 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: We wish someone else could be dumb enough to hire him. hey it's never impossible. I've watched hockey for a long time and there have been many times when fired guys get new jobs and you scratch your head as to why. They create some narrative for themselves that it wasn't Fletcher's fault, he had to listen to Holmgren or something and they shine their turd into a diamond. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 28 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: hey it's never impossible. I've watched hockey for a long time and there have been many times when fired guys get new jobs and you scratch your head as to why. They create some narrative for themselves that it wasn't Fletcher's fault, he had to listen to Holmgren or something and they shine their turd into a diamond. It happens. Oh it's possible. I couldn't for the life of me figure why the Flyers would hire him after his tenure with the Wild, making a bunch of mediocre picks, one fluke, some terrible trades and in cap hell. Then the Flyers said "We want some of that" and here we are, right where Minnesota was, minus one lucky Kaprizov selection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: minus one lucky Kaprizov selection. Dude didn't even sign Kaprizov. Guerin did. Fletcher is the only GM to be released with a "please compete" clause. His tenure in Minny had f-all to do with the hiring of the son of a friend of Bob Clarke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Oh it's possible. I couldn't for the life of me figure why the Flyers would hire him after his tenure with the Wild, making a bunch of mediocre picks, one fluke, some terrible trades and in cap hell. Then the Flyers said "We want some of that" and here we are, right where Minnesota was, minus one lucky Kaprizov selection. terrible leadership from the Dave Scott group. just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Oh it's possible. I couldn't for the life of me figure why the Flyers would hire him after his tenure with the Wild, making a bunch of mediocre picks, one fluke, some terrible trades and in cap hell. Then the Flyers said "We want some of that" and here we are, right where Minnesota was, minus one lucky Kaprizov selection. I'd say we are even worse off but the sadness of that prevents me from a long discussion. Can you imagine if we had NOT fired him yet. I could see him sitting there at the draft whispering please let Michkov be there, please let Michkov be there, as he thinks he can do Kaprizov V2. I'd almost guarantee you Michkov would be his pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Just now, GrittyForever said: I'd say we are even worse off but the sadness of that prevents me from a long discussion. Can you imagine if we had NOT fired him yet. I could see him sitting there at the draft whispering please let Michkov be there, please let Michkov be there, as he thinks he can do Kaprizov V2. I'd almost guarantee you Michkov would be his pick. Well if he falls to 7 that's going to be a tough call that I'm glad I'm not making. It's not often a #2 or even top pick in other drafts is sitting there at 7. The world could be a completely different place in 2 or 3 years. Maybe Putins "friends" knock him off and peace reigns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Interesting moment here with Toronto though. As I understand it, no trade clauses kick in for Matthews and Nylander on July 1. I'm not sure I really want either one of them, but it would be an idea to call them and see what's on the table before July 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: Well if he falls to 7 that's going to be a tough call that I'm glad I'm not making. It's not often a #2 or even top pick in other drafts is sitting there at 7. The world could be a completely different place in 2 or 3 years. Maybe Putins "friends" knock him off and peace reigns. It is a tough call, but unless they have a LONG tear down and rebuild planned it's not a good time to risk it for this franchise. New management has to play it safer. I could see Arizona taking the risk though as they might not even be Arizona soon and everyone wants out. Maybe we can trade Hayes to Arizona??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: terrible leadership from the Dave Scott group. just terrible. You mean when they just up and fired a guy on the spur of the moment, not intending to, in the middle of the season, with no plan to replace him? You're thinking that's a hallmark of this organization, why? Because the guy that process hired went and did the exact same damn thing with the hand-picked coach he hired? An actual plus side of the Danny Jones approach is that by all accounts none of the Senior Hockey Advisors who advised Dave Scott so assiduously, have had anything to do with selecting the leadership group that's in place now. That doesn't mean they're good hires. It just increases the odds significantly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: Maybe we can trade Hayes to Arizona??? Allow me to introduce Hayes' 12-team no-trade list. Yes, on top of 7 years and over $49M, Fletch also threw in a limited NTC because... Fletch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: Interesting moment here with Toronto though. As I understand it, no trade clauses kick in for Matthews and Nylander on July 1. I'm not sure I really want either one of them, but it would be an idea to call them and see what's on the table before July 1. I'd like to, for once, NOT chase the high priced free agent that isn't going to put you over the top, but help you quickly get back to mediocrity and mediocre draft picks, and we're right back where we always are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, radoran said: Allow me to introduce Hayes' 12-team no-trade list. Yes, on top of 7 years and over $49M, Fletch also threw in a limited NTC because... Fletch. Absolutely, but do we know which 12 teams are on it? 20 teams are not. It's probably got Arizona on it but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I'd like to, for once, NOT chase the high priced free agent that isn't going to put you over the top, but help you quickly get back to mediocrity and mediocre draft picks, and we're right back where we always are. They aren't free agents though. Obviously if you trade for Matthews you have a deal in place to sign him. He's not a solution to everything, and I don't see him as a playoff leader, but he is a regular season guy who helps you get into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: Absolutely, but do we know which 12 teams are on it? 20 teams are not. It's probably got Arizona on it but you never know. Hey, with any luck he could pull a Berglund and forget to submit his no trade list on time. I'm gonna think that the team sharing a locker room in the hockey barn is gonna be on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: They aren't free agents though. Obviously if you trade for Matthews you have a deal in place to sign him. He's not a solution to everything, and I don't see him as a playoff leader, but he is a regular season guy who helps you get into the playoffs. Ok, right, I just meant on the high priced. Matthews new contract is going to be, what? $14,000,000 per? And as good of a regular season playrs as he is, he doesn't put the team on his back come playoff time. For $14, 000,000 you kinda hope you'll get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: They aren't free agents though. Obviously if you trade for Matthews you have a deal in place to sign him. He's not a solution to everything, and I don't see him as a playoff leader, but he is a regular season guy who helps you get into the playoffs. Matthews isn't a Connor McDavid, but he's light years better than a Claude Giroux in that same capacity. Matthews, Konecny, Farabee, Tippett would be a good forward group to start with and then you have Old Forester, Gauthier, and whoever the 7 pick is this draft as a new core. That group without Matthews is still needing that "next level" player to be the consistent 35-40 (40+) goal scorer. to be clear, they don't need to go after Matthews right now, although they could given the no-trade window. But what I hope we will see in a new leadership philosophy the abandonment of the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" mantra. Having a 1 in 20 shot doesn't mean you will win one in 20 times. It means you lose 95% of the time each time you try. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Ok, right, I just meant on the high priced. Matthews new contract is going to be, what? $14,000,000 per? And as good of a regular season playrs as he is, he doesn't put the team on his back come playoff time. For $14, 000,000 you kinda hope you'll get that. What's Connor McDavid going to get? Asking as an American. Edited May 19, 2023 by radoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 minute ago, radoran said: What's Connor McDavid going to get? Asking as an American. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, radoran said: What's Connor McDavid going to get? Asking as an American. 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Matthews isn't a Connor McDavid Saving @flyercanuck the trouble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 @pilldoc You're not wrong. But I do wonder if McDavid considers whether he would like, say, $10M over 5 years or a better shot at a Stanley Cup. Is walking away with $70M instead of $60M while possibly never breaking through to the Cup worth it? Wondering if players just might start to consider it. I think we've seen it a bit in other leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, radoran said: @pilldoc You're not wrong. But I do wonder if McDavid considers whether he would like, say, $10M over 5 years or a better shot at a Stanley Cup. Is walking away with $70M instead of $60M while possibly never breaking through to the Cup worth it? Wondering if players just might start to consider it. I think we've seen it a bit in other leagues. All joking aside, what really is the difference between 70 million and 60 million? (yeah 10 million doing the math) but that really is insignificant at those insane amounts. "IF" the Oilers can solve their goaltending issues AND if he like Edmonton, then if I was McDavid (which I am not) ... I would be thinking a Cup Victory is more important than the cash. Why not settle for a bit less so you can get the supporting cast around so you can have a shot at winning the Cup. I totally get your POV and it is a worthy discussion to have. Edited May 19, 2023 by pilldoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 45 minutes ago, pilldoc said: All joking aside, what really is the difference between 70 million and 60 million? (yeah 10 million doing the math) but that really is insignificant at those insane amounts. "IF" the Oilers can solve their goaltending issues AND if he like Edmonton, then if I was McDavid (which I am not) ... I would be thinking a Cup Victory is more important than the cash. Why not settle for a bit less so you can get the supporting cast around so you can have a shot at winning the Cup. I totally get your POV and it is a worthy discussion to have. As these salaries get more and more inflated, you will see it more. I think its fairly prevalent in baseball, basketball and football. Hockey has always been different. The Stanley Cup, and what it takes to get it, has always held a higher nostalgic value. If you tap into the social aspect of it, I've many times how playing hockey as a kid is a huge financial commitment. Kids growing up playing hockey may come from more affluent families, where the financial set backs and hardships may not be as significant. But in the end, if you are offering a 10 million dollar difference, todays player might be more worried about long term financial endeavors, then what happens on the ice. Although playing for a cup was not really an option, I think JVR is prime example of a guy who could care less about on ice perfromance over his paycheck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, CoachX said: in the end, if you are offering a 10 million dollar difference, todays player might be more worried about long term financial endeavors, then what happens on the ice. I understand your POV and for the lesser player it would actually make some sense. By lesser player I mean a role player who will obviously make less money instead of super star player who will have a very rich contract. My comment was directed very specifically to McDavid and can be reflected on those few handful players who have true super star status and contracts. Take Crosby for example. Over the course of his entire career, he has signed 3 contracts worth a total value of $159,000,000. McDavid could possibly earn more than that over the course of his career. In the grand scheme of things what is $10 million dollars when you are talking figures like that. He is more than set for life. Again my comment was more for the truly great super star players and not the role player. Someone like a Carter Verhaeghe is already 27. He has only made just over 6 million dollars for career earnings. He may only get 1 possibly 2 more contracts where he very well may try to get everything he is earned. Here $10 million is a very big thing. McDavid who is a year younger than Verhaeghe at 26 has already signed 2 contracts worth a total value of $111,325,000. He IS set for life. So yeah having sign at 70 million or 60 million really does not matter in the grand scheme of things. If I were him, again, which I am not ..... I would settle for a bit less so my team can surround me with great depth for a legit shot at the Cup. Please note ... I am only referencing McDavid since that is what @radoran and I originally were discussing. This may not apply to all players ...... Finally since Austin Matthews is a hot topic ..... He has signed 2 contracts worth a total value of $69,520,000. Regardless of what he signs next, he too will be set for life no matter what value is next contract will be. So does he want the money or does he want a Cup? Again you make a very valid point. I am simply focusing on the Super Stars who will make a difference for their respective teams. Edited May 19, 2023 by pilldoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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