OccamsRazor Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 3 hours ago, radoran said: Nine points out with half a season to play. Anything can happen. Coots said he is on the way damn...if he is going to just let JVR fcuk up the draft pick he wants in too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Can you find one where Hayes bursts into Flames? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 On 1/6/2023 at 8:04 PM, Samifan said: Since I live in Raleigh now, I can pick Hayes up from the airport when he gets here! Then put him in the trunk of your car and leave him in the parking lot of long term parking. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: It's obviously voter fraud. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 This is all the evidence you need to know that the little bett turds all star game is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: It's obviously voter fraud. If it was voted by players I could see it. Coach: Ok, tonight we play the Flyers....Johnny, you'll be going head to head against Kevin Hayes Johnny : LMFAO!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: If it was voted by players I could see it. Coach: Ok, tonight we play the Flyers....Johnny, you'll be going head to head against Kevin Hayes Johnny : LMFAO!!!!! Fletcher stuffed the ballot boxes, thinking Hayes value would increase so when he tries to trade Hayes he can say ..Im putting my All Star center on the block . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 They added Hayes so the fans wouldn't vote him in as a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, radoran said: They added Hayes so the fans wouldn't vote him in as a joke. Everyone can vote for DesLauriers now 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, GrittyForever said: Everyone can vote for DesLauriers now Yeah, the Flyers would push him over Konecny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/6/2023 at 4:36 PM, OccamsRazor said: I had seen a rumor last week Hayes to Dallas Stars picking up 50% of his salary for Denis Gurianov and a pick. I would do this just to not seen him anymore.... NO! No no no. Why? That leaves the Flyers paying $3.5mil/season for someone not on the team anymore. This is EXACTLY the kind of knee jerk thing that the Flyers have to stop doing. Stop accepting trades that retain salary. They are a sucker's bet. Yes, the guy is a problem. But he is also a problem that scores more points that (almost) everyone else on the team. Removing him while not recouping all of his cap space doubles down on the stupidity of signing him in the first place. The team gets (somehow) even worse, but still have to pay the guy. Just no. Buyouts are bad. Don't do them. Trades that retain significant salary are bad. Don't do them. Cap space is precious. Don't spend it on some cathartic bowel movement to make people feel better for a week. Hayes should be a Flyer until his contract is up, or he is traded at full salary. It isn't like the Flyers are chasing a cup over the next 3 years. Easy in's and easy out's are how the Flyers have done over the last 20 years. Stop it. Clear the decks, or don't clear the decks. Getting rid of a player but leaving his sh|t laying around for years is only more of the same. Ffs. Where do I apply for the GM job? Is it with the Flyers, or do I go through Comcast? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, aziz said: That leaves the Flyers paying $3.5mil/season for someone not on the team anymore. Ok. 4 minutes ago, aziz said: Hayes should be a Flyer until his contract is up, or he is traded at full salary. Yeah this is what you're looking at if you ain't picking up salary or buying him out. And you also keep Hayes around to taint the youth you bring in till he is gone. Plus the fact i don't know if i can stand seeing him float if i decide to tune in later. Rather snatch the band aid off now. Especially if they are going to rebuild this offseason. 10 minutes ago, aziz said: Getting rid of a player but leaving his sh|t laying around for years is only more of the same. I just look at it as free up 3.5mill in cap space on top of a roster spot. The contract coming back can audition till the end of the season or even flipped again for picks either way comes off the books at years end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 35 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And you also keep Hayes around to taint the youth you bring in till he is gone A thing that amazes me is the cognitive dissonance of the conflicting ideas that 17 yearolds can be accurately projected out 10 years, but they can also be "tainted" by a lazy player along the way. Or a restrictive coach. Which is it? Can you tell me what a child is going to be like as an adult, or is it completely up in the air and subject to influence at every step of the way? Hayes isn't tainting anyone. No one is looking at him going, "I want to be just like Hayes, I'm going to float around in the same way, it'll be great." He's a problem in the lineup because he represents too much cap space for an incomplete player, but that's it. The only way his impact on the team could be worse is if you kept paying him while not getting *anything* in return. And that's what retaining salary does. He isn't contagious, and isn't seen as a role model by anyone that has any hope of being an impact player. This is silly. 40 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Plus the fact i don't know if i can stand seeing him float if i decide to tune in later. This, I get. 41 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I just look at it as free up 3.5mill in cap space on top of a roster spot. The contract coming back can audition till the end of the season or even flipped again for picks either way comes off the books at years end. Except if you trade him and hold 50% of his salary, that doesn't come off the books until summer of 2026. Look, cap space is an asset to be managed, exactly as prospects and contracts are. If you waste it for no return, you are doing nothing but hurting the team. As good as it might feel in the moment. Every bit of dead cap space you have (payments to players with retained salary or buyouts) are wasting cap space for no return. You hate him, I get it. You want him gone, I get it. You want to literally spend cap space to have him gone, you are making a bad call. Again, the only thing worse than paying a one dimensional player to give you an incomplete game is paying an empty roster spot to give you no game at all. That HAS to be lesson #1 for a GM in the capped era. A team lives and dies by its cap space in the modern game. The Flyers have habitually wasted cap space, both on bad signings and then how they've dealt with those bad signings. If you sign a guy to a terrible contract, the only way to make it worse is to get rid of him but keep on dedicating cap to him. This seems obvious to me. Paying for little is stupid. Paying for nothing is moronic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I just want to see the bum move his feet once in a while. It's not much to ask for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, aziz said: Which is it? It's all of it at once. I'm 51 - the young men of today weren't built like me. Couldn't have survived growing up in the south in the 70's and 80s like i did. I am still trying to understand them. But in my profession (since i am in the training department) i can always tell soon if they are going to make it or not. Flyer need to find that guy who can do the same - quickly. 1 hour ago, aziz said: Can you tell me what a child is going to be like as an adult, or is it completely up in the air and subject to influence at every step of the way? I can't tell you what every child will be like today because there are so many different ways it can go. And i have always been told i am too hard on them and i should be more understanding. I hope Flyer management can because this is a huge mess to sort. 1 hour ago, aziz said: Except if you trade him and hold 50% of his salary, that doesn't come off the books until summer of 2026. I am good with i can't live with it and look at it as spending 3.5 mill towards something else. At the same time admitting the mistake of signing him. 1 hour ago, aziz said: You hate him, I get it. You want him gone, I get it. No i'm not in the @flyercanuck hate him group. I just don't like his game and demeanor. In fact i can not articulate really why i don't like him but to say that i just do. 1 hour ago, aziz said: you are making a bad call. An opinion that defers from my is all you can really say, as of now you can't call it bad unless you have a crystal ball. But i'm willing to try and it and see. 1 hour ago, aziz said: Paying for little is stupid. Paying for nothing is moronic. And see saying not to move on regardless the cost is moronic. One of us is going to be right. Both us can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: I just want to see the bum move his feet once in a while. Out the door. Does Siberia have a team??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: No i'm not in the @flyercanuck hate him group. You're not wrong. And neither am I. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: You're not wrong. And neither am I. So would you trade him and pick up half his salary?? I know i would. I would trade him for free... Edited January 10, 2023 by OccamsRazor #bourbonup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 35 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: So would you trade him and pick up half his salary?? I know i would. I would trade him for free... I'd trade him for free. I'd want a return to pick up half his salary. I think someone might give you a 2nd. I don't hate Kevin Hayes the person. I don't blame him one bit for signing that contract, I sure as hell would have. But if I did, you could bet I'd put in a lot more effort than Kevin Hayes, the player I hate does. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: I'd trade him for free. I'd want a return to pick up half his salary. I think someone might give you a 2nd. SOLD!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 10 hours ago, aziz said: If you sign a guy to a terrible contract, the only way to make it worse is to get rid of him but keep on dedicating cap to him. This seems obvious to me. Paying for little is stupid. Paying for nothing is moronic. The way it works is you can have $7M in cap space tied up in Kevin Hayes for the next three years or you can have $3.5M in cap space for the next three years. That's not "nothing." In a scenario where you're already carrying $6.25M for literally "nothing" and another $5.875M for, again, actually "nothing" this season (and signed for two more) and another $7.75M for nothing so far this season and potentially another seven then that cap space starts to become even more valuable as you have critically less of it overall. That's almost a quarter of the cap tied up in IR. Hayes is not a point per game player. He's barely a 20/50 guy. He's a dime a dozen player that they spent seven dollars on. His only selling point was that he was the "best available" when they absolutely had to have a 2C so they could lose in the second round of the playoffs. Three years ago. It's investing in short term needs with long term commitments that has the Flyers where they are today. Continuing that trend will not help them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) I think in the short term retaining some salary isn't the worst. In fact I floated an idea of getting rid of a pile of players so the remaining "dead money" player equals a Hayes contract to start and decreases yearly. This frees up roster spots and money to sign young guys to bridge contracts. I totally understand and on some level I agree with @aziz paying for nothing is stupid. Waiting around, watching a guy not earn all the money he's being paid feels needlessly enraging. Especially if that player can be of use somewhere else and the resources left over are used to build something. There are caveats. I'd want to trust the people doing the building to manage the remaining space shrewdly. I don't have confidence the current GM will do that. I do think @aziz 's philosophy is why James vanRemsdyk is still a Flyer. And so far this season when he's been in the lineup he's been largely a positive influence. Torts would staple his ass to the bench if he were loafing. JvR is having a 30's JvR year where he drives play and scores 50 points. He's a good human and professional and I'm sure that is of some value as well. There is no one way to build a team. we've all seen the myriad ways the Flyers have ****ed up their attempts at the task. I have empathy for everyone who id wanting to blow it up and the hopelessness they feel. So, yeah, buy those guys out and build something, right? Edited January 10, 2023 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I do think @aziz 's philosophy is why James vanRemsdyk is still a Flyer. IMO, if they'd still had a 2nd rounder, they would have been able to move him (retaining $$) last offseason. They didn't. They only thing they had was 1sts and they couldn't justify giving that up. Having already given up a 2nd to get rid of Ghost, and then a 2nd to get Ristolainen, and then a 2nd to get DeAngelo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, radoran said: IMO, if they'd still had a 2nd rounder, they would have been able to move him (retaining $$) last offseason. They didn't. They only thing they had was 1sts and they couldn't justify giving that up. Having already given up a 2nd to get rid of Ghost, and then a 2nd to get Ristolainen, and then a 2nd to get DeAngelo... Right now Fletchers wondering if he could get Ghost with 2-2nds and use another to get rid of Risto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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