honest question: why briere?

[GratefulFlyers]

2 hours ago, pilldoc said:

simply put…. This team is unwatchable….

 

No that was last year's team. Everyone had checked out early and until the TD brought in some of the AHL guys it was boring in the extreme.

 

But this year they're playing hard, giving an honest effort every night. You won't see many Ws but nearly every game has been entertaining. I forget the exact stat but it's something like "last 12 have all been 1-goal games."

 

Of course they were 0-6 in OT - finally got their first post-reg win in SJ the other night. So yeah not much winning but plenty of close, scrappy games. And this Ersson kid looks like he's for real.

 

Also they lead the league (or their 2nd I forget which) in blocked shots.

 

edit: btw @pilldoc not that you're wrong bc I totally understand why Flyers' fans would think this team is unwatchable. Fletcher has put together the worst Flyers roster of all time. But they are playing some good hockey most nights.

Edited December 31, 2022 by GratefulFlyers

[radoran]

13 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Everyone had checked out early

 

So the whole team just quit on the longest serving captain in the history of the organization after they had restructured the roster to support him?

 

Legendary.

[GratefulFlyers]

22 minutes ago, radoran said:

after they had restructured the roster to support him?

 

 I think Giroux better than anyone knew that "restructured roster" was full of holes.

 

edit: he might've been the first to "check out" and I can hardly blame him.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by GratefulFlyers

[pilldoc]

17 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

edit: btw @pilldoc not that you're wrong bc I totally understand why Flyers' fans would think this team is unwatchable. Fletcher has put together the worst Flyers roster of all time. But they are playing some good hockey most nights.

you are not wrong…. However when the talent level is so heavily skewed for the opposing team, no matter how much effort they (Flyers) put forth most nights will end up as a L. Then IMO it becomes unwatchable.

 

It is no different than my sons baseball team last year. Despite my son’s team trying there best and giving it their all, we were blown out by 15 runs 17 out of 18 games. We simply were overmatched talent wise that the games became unwatchable.

 

Now I get it…comparing an NHL team to a 14u baseball team is not exactly fair, but the semantics are similar.

 

 I am glad the Flyers are playing hard for Torts, but knowing they are overmatched vs. the more talented teams in NHL then IMO only it becomes unwatchable. 
 

Fletch and company are directly responsible for that…..

 

I am not telling you or any other fan not to watch. If you want to is completely up to you.  Me personally I will not waste my time this year except for tibits here or there….

 

 I get your post and POV, I just respectfully disagree at this time…

 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

no matter how much effort they (Flyers) put forth most nights will end up as a L.

 

Yep. If you're looking for Ws look elsewhere. But for better or worse the Flyers are my team and I'll watch till the bitter end. But I don't begrudge anyone tuning out. It is unwatchable compared to a normal year, where your team is basically even money to collect 2 points.

 

But this season, esp lately, is not nearly as ugly as I thought it'd be and the wins - like tonight against a very good team - are extra enjoyable. And the young guys who are making a difference...is good to see.

 

But all in all you're not missing much. In any case @Howie58 and I will welcome all of you back on the bus once Fletcher is history!

[pilldoc]

21 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

But all in all you're not missing much. In any case @Howie58 and I will welcome all of you back on the bus once Fletcher is history!

Don’t worry many of us are not going anywhere. I’ve been here since the inception of this forum. (~13 yrs)…. But getting rid of Fletch is only half the battle…there MUST be changes in the FO. If not then I feel if the Flyers do not absolutely nail correctly the new GM, then we will looking at Ground Hog Day all over.

 

Again I appreciate your POV….

Edited January 1, 2023 by pilldoc

[ruxpin]

22 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Yep. If you're looking for Ws look elsewhere. But for better or worse the Flyers are my team and I'll watch till the bitter end. But I don't begrudge anyone tuning out. It is unwatchable compared to a normal year, where your team is basically even money to collect 2 points.

 

But this season, esp lately, is not nearly as ugly as I thought it'd be and the wins - like tonight against a very good team - are extra enjoyable. And the young guys who are making a difference...is good to see.

 

But all in all you're not missing much. In any case @Howie58 and I will welcome all of you back on the bus once Fletcher is history!

I'm not sure I will be back to watching games immediately.

 

It's like church and Amway.  Once you realize it's mostly ********, there's really no desire to go back.

 

I was a true believer since early childhood.  Paul Holmgren and his special education sidekick have killed that.

 

If Fletcher and Holmgren are shown the door or have a catastrophic and fatal bicycle incident on the Walt Whitman or Ben Franklin I'll likely tune in. But probably not until.

[pilldoc]

14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If Fletcher and Holmgren are shown the door or have a catastrophic and fatal bicycle incident on the Walt Whitman or Ben Franklin

I have friends in low places……..

[CoachX]

I watched game 1 of this season and that's it. I dont look to see if there is a game on that I can get, I dont ask for links, and I dont read the news to find out what's going on. Most, if any info I get, comes from this forum. However, I do go to hockeyfights.com when I hear about a scrap in a game.

 

It'll be nice coming back because it won't happen until this team is relevant. But right now they are like social media, I'm not on it and I don't miss it

[GrittyForever]

9 hours ago, CoachX said:

You realize what you've just dome, right? You are now saying that the firing of CF will be an excuse to cover up for the real problem, the management above him. That's the same management that is grooming DB. So you are saying management is inept, but you trust them with their ability to train and hire him. You are actually making all of our arguments for us

 

No, there's one fundamental and key difference. You ASSUME Briere will be a yes man and nothing will change. I do not think that's who he is or would be. 

 

Fletcher as a fall guy, well that's obvious. That'll just be spin and press conference nonsense. new directions blah blah blah as always in sports. What Briere would do (if hired) is unknown. 

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I watched game 1 of this season and that's it. I dont look to see if there is a game on that I can get, I dont ask for links, and I dont read the news to find out what's going on. Most, if any info I get, comes from this forum. However, I do go to hockeyfights.com when I hear about a scrap in a game.

 

It'll be nice coming back because it won't happen until this team is relevant. But right now they are like social media, I'm not on it and I don't miss it

This really is exactly where I'm at, though I haven't been as successful on social media.

 

I mean I'm no longer on Twitter since my permanent ban in 2019.

 

It turns out that you can't tell a sitting president to #### himself with his own son's link [¥¥¥] and hang himself from his scro##m and keep your Twitter account.

 

I've been in Facebook jail enough that it's really screwed up the drug-induced algorithm they think they have to the point it's really no longer enjoyable.

 

I'm not 15 and I can read English, so I'm not the target audience for TikTok.  Instagram is Egyptian hieroglyphics for dyslexic children, so it bores me.

 

All are more entertaining than a Flyers game.

[pilldoc]

7 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

What Briere would do (if hired) is unknown. 

 
And that is the BIG question…. We just don’t know

[Podein25]

23 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

This really is exactly where I'm at, though I haven't been as successful on social media.

 

I mean I'm no longer on Twitter since my permanent ban in 2019.

 

It turns out that you can't tell a sitting president to #### himself with his own son's link [¥¥¥] and hang himself from his scro##m and keep your Twitter account.

 

I've been in Facebook jail enough that it's really screwed up the drug-induced algorithm they think they have to the point it's really no longer enjoyable.

 

I'm not 15 and I can read English, so I'm not the target audience for TikTok.  Instagram is Egyptian hieroglyphics for dyslexic children, so it bores me.

 

All are more entertaining than a Flyers game.

 

Lol.

 

Can I interrest you in an old fashioned Excel spreadsheet? You can do nifty stuff like prorate your IQ and sh!t.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Lol.

 

Can I interrest you in an old fashioned Excel spreadsheet? You can do nifty stuff like prorate your IQ and sh!t.

Lol i really like Excel. And Smartsheet.

 

Much more than social media.

 

I can type whatever I want on either platform and not get kicked off.

[mojo1917]

@pilldoc

There is something extra soul crushing when you see maximum effort not yield good results.

Couple that with a general hopeless around the future because of long-term bad contracts and a prospect pool that seems poor; I can see where tuning is feels pointless and mostly sad.

[mojo1917]

@GratefulFlyers

You are mostly right.

The effort is there, the games are close.

I find watching this team to be difficult because they have to play perfectly.

There is no guy that can turn the momentum of a game. The goalies? If they make a big save they need to make 6 more...it's too frustrating for me to watch this as a form of recreation or escape from the everyday grind.

[CoachX]

16 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

No, there's one fundamental and key difference. You ASSUME Briere will be a yes man and nothing will change. I do not think that's who he is or would be. 

 

Fletcher as a fall guy, well that's obvious. That'll just be spin and press conference nonsense. new directions blah blah blah as always in sports. What Briere would do (if hired) is unknown. 

And you ASSUME he won't. The only thing you have backing your argument is you are a die hard Flyer fan, and that causes you to like the guy. You can't make any argument about his qualifications for the job because he doesn't have any

 

Look we are going back and forth saying the same things. I wont change my position and you won't change yours. Absent new information I think it's time to move on

[aziz]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:57 PM, pilldoc said:

you are not wrong…. However when the talent level is so heavily skewed for the opposing team, no matter how much effort they (Flyers) put forth most nights will end up as a L. Then IMO it becomes unwatchable.

 

It is no different than my sons baseball team last year. Despite my son’s team trying there best and giving it their all, we were blown out by 15 runs 17 out of 18 games. We simply were overmatched talent wise that the games became unwatchable.

 

 

here's the thing, though:  in the best of all scenarios, the flyers will be distinctly overmatched in terms of talent for the foreseeable future.  I can't see that changing in less than 3 or 4 years, and those numbers are assuming outstanding results from drafts and at least a few of the current kids stepping way the hell up.  And no more screw ups from the GM.

 

So, to the extent anyone has any plans on trying to enjoy watching Flyers hockey over the next half decade, it is going to HAVE to be from an underdog position.  Scrappy, less talented but more motivated jobbers getting it done despite the odds.  If a qualification for a season to be enjoyable is your team being dominate on some level, that just isn't on the table for a long time.  So, it's kind of a buckle-up and hope they punch above their weight thing, accepting it's going to be ugly and inconsistent for a long time.  Or, it is tune out and check back in somewhere around 2027.

 

And, before anyone takes the above to suggest there is something wrong with having no interest in watching a 66% failure rate, heart-on-sleeves though it might be...that isn't at all what I'm getting at.  I, personally, can't get myself wrapped up in it.  Every one of my fingers are burned nerveless from touching the Flyers-might-be-better-this-year stove to come anywhere near the obsessive interest I used to have.  I walked away years ago, and now am very very fringe with all of it.  And am throwing zero stones at people falling to this detached place.

 

My only point is, if you still have that Flyers-shaped obsession burning behind your eyes, it is going to have to be re-calibrated to enjoy hard honest work, and hopefully over-achievement.  Winning can't be the measure.  Enjoying a team for whom the odds are consistently in favor just isn't in the cards for the Flyers' fans anytime soon.  And worryingly, the longer those odds can stay against the Flyers, the better overall (to a point).  A couple of signings could give us a season or two of "hey, we're good again", but that would be a sugar high, and only push out actual competence by more years.  So, we're in the weirdest of all fans' situations:  hoping our management lets the team be unwatchable for years.

 

As I typed that last sentence, "what a flipping disgrace" went screaming through my head.  I can't believe They have broken things this badly.  It is just shocking.

[pilldoc]

41 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

 

here's the thing, though:  in the best of all scenarios, the flyers will be distinctly overmatched in terms of talent for the foreseeable future.  I can't see that changing in less than 3 or 4 years, and those numbers are assuming outstanding results from drafts and at least a few of the current kids stepping way the hell up.  And no more screw ups from the GM.

 

So, to the extent anyone has any plans on trying to enjoy watching Flyers hockey over the next half decade, it is going to HAVE to be from an underdog position.  Scrappy, less talented but more motivated jobbers getting it done despite the odds.  If a qualification for a season to be enjoyable is your team being dominate on some level, that just isn't on the table for a long time.  So, it's kind of a buckle-up and hope they punch above their weight thing, accepting it's going to be ugly and inconsistent for a long time.  Or, it is tune out and check back in somewhere around 2027.

 

And, before anyone takes the above to suggest there is something wrong with having no interest in watching a 66% failure rate, heart-on-sleeves though it might be...that isn't at all what I'm getting at.  I, personally, can't get myself wrapped up in it.  Every one of my fingers are burned nerveless from touching the Flyers-might-be-better-this-year stove to come anywhere near the obsessive interest I used to have.  I walked away years ago, and now am very very fringe with all of it.  And am throwing zero stones at people falling to this detached place.

 

My only point is, if you still have that Flyers-shaped obsession burning behind your eyes, it is going to have to be re-calibrated to enjoy hard honest work, and hopefully over-achievement.  Winning can't be the measure.  Enjoying a team for whom the odds are consistently in favor just isn't in the cards for the Flyers' fans anytime soon.  And worryingly, the longer those odds can stay against the Flyers, the better overall (to a point).  A couple of signings could give us a season or two of "hey, we're good again", but that would be a sugar high, and only push out actual competence by more years.  So, we're in the weirdest of all fans' situations:  hoping our management lets the team be unwatchable for years.

 

As I typed that last sentence, "what a flipping disgrace" went screaming through my head.  I can't believe They have broken things this badly.  It is just shocking.

well said @aziz …. Very hard to add anything else….

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, aziz said:

 

 

here's the thing, though:  in the best of all scenarios, the flyers will be distinctly overmatched in terms of talent for the foreseeable future.  I can't see that changing in less than 3 or 4 years, and those numbers are assuming outstanding results from drafts and at least a few of the current kids stepping way the hell up.  And no more screw ups from the GM.

 

So, to the extent anyone has any plans on trying to enjoy watching Flyers hockey over the next half decade, it is going to HAVE to be from an underdog position.  Scrappy, less talented but more motivated jobbers getting it done despite the odds.  If a qualification for a season to be enjoyable is your team being dominate on some level, that just isn't on the table for a long time.  So, it's kind of a buckle-up and hope they punch above their weight thing, accepting it's going to be ugly and inconsistent for a long time.  Or, it is tune out and check back in somewhere around 2027.

 

And, before anyone takes the above to suggest there is something wrong with having no interest in watching a 66% failure rate, heart-on-sleeves though it might be...that isn't at all what I'm getting at.  I, personally, can't get myself wrapped up in it.  Every one of my fingers are burned nerveless from touching the Flyers-might-be-better-this-year stove to come anywhere near the obsessive interest I used to have.  I walked away years ago, and now am very very fringe with all of it.  And am throwing zero stones at people falling to this detached place.

 

My only point is, if you still have that Flyers-shaped obsession burning behind your eyes, it is going to have to be re-calibrated to enjoy hard honest work, and hopefully over-achievement.  Winning can't be the measure.  Enjoying a team for whom the odds are consistently in favor just isn't in the cards for the Flyers' fans anytime soon.  And worryingly, the longer those odds can stay against the Flyers, the better overall (to a point).  A couple of signings could give us a season or two of "hey, we're good again", but that would be a sugar high, and only push out actual competence by more years.  So, we're in the weirdest of all fans' situations:  hoping our management lets the team be unwatchable for years.

 

As I typed that last sentence, "what a flipping disgrace" went screaming through my head.  I can't believe They have broken things this badly.  It is just shocking.

You always had really good posts. This one lived up.  Well said.

[CoachX]

13 hours ago, aziz said:

hoping our management lets the team be unwatchable for years.

The team being bad because they lack the talent to compete happens in pro sports. As a fan, loyalty can carry you through in tough times. But like Aziz alludes to, this team is horrible because of bad management. It's all unforced errors. That's what makes it worse for me. In the past I lacked the knowledge to know the intricacies of how a franchise was managed, so I would stayed tuned in. But in this case, based on insight from this forum, I know why this team is suk. And I am insulted and offended. So I won't watch. Not because my absence affects them at all, but because they have stolen my passion. It is my opinion that this organization has put the financial success of the suits above the fan. They insult us by putting out a crap product, wrapping it in a furry orange costume, overwhelming us with loud music and overpriced beers, and highlight videos of miniscule success. They are cashing in on decades of success built on blood sweat and tears of teams from the past, and devoted fan loyalty. They know they will make money regardless of how we feel, or what actually happens on the ice.

 

They have stolen this fans passion and loyalty, and I hate it

 

 

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

*smashed* the like button.

[Podein25]

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

The team being bad because they lack the talent to compete happens in pro sports. As a fan, loyalty can carry you through in tough times. But like Aziz alludes to, this team is horrible because of bad management. It's all unforced errors. That's what makes it worse for me. In the past I lacked the knowledge to know the intricacies of how a franchise was managed, so I would stayed tuned in. But in this case, based on insight from this forum, I know why this team is suk. And I am insulted and offended. So I won't watch. Not because my absence affects them at all, but because they have stolen my passion. It is my opinion that this organization has put the financial success of the suits above the fan. They insult us by putting out a crap product, wrapping it in a furry orange costume, overwhelming us with loud music and overpriced beers, and highlight videos of miniscule success. They are cashing in on decades of success built on blood sweat and tears of teams from the past, and devoted fan loyalty. They know they will make money regardless of how we feel, or what actually happens on the ice.

 

They have stolen this fans passion and loyalty, and I hate it

 

 

 

So much alluding/eluding going on, I can't keep it straight

 

This is a good post, congrats! You should reward yourself with a visit to the local mall, spend some quality time around the top of the escalators. Enjoy!

[GratefulFlyers]

28 minutes ago, CoachX said:

The team being bad because they lack the talent to compete happens in pro sports. As a fan, loyalty can carry you through in tough times. But like Aziz alludes to, this team is horrible because of bad management. It's all unforced errors. That's what makes it worse for me. In the past I lacked the knowledge to know the intricacies of how a franchise was managed, so I would stayed tuned in. But in this case, based on insight from this forum, I know why this team is suk. And I am insulted and offended. So I won't watch. Not because my absence affects them at all, but because they have stolen my passion. It is my opinion that this organization has put the financial success of the suits above the fan. They insult us by putting out a crap product, wrapping it in a furry orange costume, overwhelming us with loud music and overpriced beers, and highlight videos of miniscule success. They are cashing in on decades of success built on blood sweat and tears of teams from the past, and devoted fan loyalty. They know they will make money regardless of how we feel, or what actually happens on the ice.

 

They have stolen this fans passion and loyalty, and I hate it

 

 

 

Wow! That is as "spot on" as it ever gets. Seriously. Congratulations for distilling down the essence of what so many around here are - and have been saying for a long time. I thought I "got it" before - all the disinterest and feelings of betrayal and alienation but reading your post clarified it completely. You're right. The Flyers' management, whether purposely or through sheer ineptness has abused their fan base to the point that long-time, die-hard fans like all of us are walking away.

 

I'd love to start a new graph with OTOH but there's nothing there. I'll keep watching for the reasons I've said many times: there are still plenty of exciting, surprising moments, great shifts by guys you never heard of until this year, excellent goaltending for the most part, etc.

 

I only hope the foundation Tortorella is laying down this year - accountability, 60-min effort, etc. - is allowed to continue. I guess that'll be up to the next GM - assuming there is a next GM in the near future. They may or may not already be on the road back to respectability. Even so as @aziz describes, correctly I think, it's a multi-year project - and that's with proper asset management.

[ruxpin]

53 minutes ago, CoachX said:

The team being bad because they lack the talent to compete happens in pro sports. As a fan, loyalty can carry you through in tough times. But like Aziz alludes to, this team is horrible because of bad management. It's all unforced errors. That's what makes it worse for me. In the past I lacked the knowledge to know the intricacies of how a franchise was managed, so I would stayed tuned in. But in this case, based on insight from this forum, I know why this team is suk. And I am insulted and offended. So I won't watch. Not because my absence affects them at all, but because they have stolen my passion. It is my opinion that this organization has put the financial success of the suits above the fan. They insult us by putting out a crap product, wrapping it in a furry orange costume, overwhelming us with loud music and overpriced beers, and highlight videos of miniscule success. They are cashing in on decades of success built on blood sweat and tears of teams from the past, and devoted fan loyalty. They know they will make money regardless of how we feel, or what actually happens on the ice.

 

They have stolen this fans passion and loyalty, and I hate it

 

 

Fantastic post.

 

Wow, I didn't know you had it in you.