honest question: why briere?

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

So you want Fletcher. Cause that's what you just described when he was hired. 

No.

He wasn't. At all. Simply a ridiculous statement.

 

He was a proven terrible GM who those of us who actually understand hockey and follow it said was a terrible hire in real time.

 

I, among several others, was nearly jumping off bridges over how terrible he was and is.   We were told by those who, in fantasy, believe tigers change their stripes, "he hasn't done anything here yet; give him a chance; yadda yadda.

 

He's been equally as moronic here as he was in Minnesota.  And our Wild friends on this site warned us.

 

*I want a GM with some kind of proven, and or established, record as an executive at the NHL level."

 

No, Fletcher in no way fits that criteria and never has. He was an unmitigated failure in Minnesota and continues to be

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I, among several others, was nearly jumping off bridges over how terrible he was and is.   We were told by those who, in fantasy, believe tigers change their stripes, "he hasn't done anything here yet; give him a chance; yadda yadda.

 

He's been equally as moronic here as he was in Minnesota.  And our Wild friends on this site warned us.

this is true.

 

it is still a little amazing that the hiring has turned out to be almost worse than you guys predicted.

[radoran]

27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

this is true.

 

it is still a little amazing that the hiring has turned out to be almost worse than you guys predicted.

 

[pilldoc]

29 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

this is true.

 

it is still a little amazing that the hiring has turned out to be almost worse than you guys predicted.

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

this is true.

 

it is still a little amazing that the hiring has turned out to be almost worse than you guys predicted.

 

Almost. 

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 

One of these things is not like the other. 

Fletcher does not "have the chops to do the job". He has no clue what he's doing. At any part of the job.

Yes, we know that NOW, but when he took the job he was one of those experienced GM candidates similar to the ones proposed here. Family lineage and all. Sure fire smart hire for some "experts". 

Insanity would be knowing this and yet doing it again. 

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, CoachX said:

You're exhausting! You simply want to take what you want to fit your argument. How about this, I will just stop arguing with you and let you go on being wrong

 

Just because every other possible candidate is not Briere, does not make them Fletcher. You seem to be arguing that very point. You have no knowledge of possible qualified applicants, as you mentioned in an above post, so you are convinced Briere is the answer, specifically because you liked him as a player

 

The BUF is currently 17-14-2 with 36 pts. Thats 5pts ahead of the Flyers. They are also the 5th Wild Card. If that's a "righted" ship make sure there are plenty of lifeboats. And I'm pretty sure you or I could convince Fletcher to trade us a carton of new game sweaters for a pet rock. Not much in that accomplishment

 

Injuries? Yeah there were injuries. There always are. But we aren't talking about short term wins and loses. The issue is long term mismanagement of contracts that have anchored this franchise to dumpster.

 

Did I read this right? You think Fletcher being fired would an "excuse" or "whipping boy"? If so please let me know so I can politely back out of this conversation and move on to something else

Yup, I'm sticking to my point, much like you are to yours.

How is John Ferguson Jr. not exactly like a Fletcher????  No hindsight allowed. 

Buffalo was dead last, if you don't think they've righted the ship watch a game. 

Fletcher's firing will be this year's spun excuse. Not from me, from them. It's the usual way. Fire a coach, fire a GM, new direction blah blah blah, that's how the spin continues . Surely you are old enough to have seen that story before. 

 

I hate Fletcher. I've already stated that clearly. 

[GrittyForever]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 those of us who actually understand hockey

You do realize that the minute you write this line you become a total **** with no value whatsoever don't you? 

 

Arrogant twaddle. 

I played hockey, I understand hockey, and I've likely watched it long before you were even born. But of course, you "actually understand it". 

 

Play nice here or don't play at all. 

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Yes, we know that NOW, but when he took the job he was one of those experienced GM candidates similar to the ones proposed here. Family lineage and all. Sure fire smart hire for some "experts". 

Insanity would be knowing this and yet doing it again. 

 

 

He was experienced at doing EXACTLY what he's done in Philly. Make bad trades, sign expensive free agents that aren't worth anything near what he paid, and trade draft picks away for nothing. Thats exactly what he did in Minnesota. I knew that. So did most other people...some just said "Let's wait and see if he changed". It wasn't like people were confident in what he'd done, they hoped he'd learned from it. He didn't. Several of us thought this right out of the gate and wondered out loud WHY Philly would hire a guy with THAT history.

 

Here's some quotes from this board...

 

"yay ?"

 

"Well, they repainted the walls on the Flyer Titanic. Looks good"

 

 

"I hope it works out, obviously.

Uh, he did trade Brent Burns away. 

And he did cripple the Wild with those Parise and Suter contracts which will be on the books until the asteroid hits in Donald Trumps 3rd term.

Needless to say, I don't have the "high hopes". "

 

 "More I don't know how to run a hockey organization properly by the Flyers organization."

 

 

"That is EXACTLY what scared me.

Buh bye top talent pool.

Hello retirement home."

 

"I hope Fletcher - and Holmgren - have learned from past mistakes and put those lessons to good use.  However, I'm not feeling all that great about it."

 

"

Ugh.....  

Here's hoping for the best BUT expecting the worst ...... "

 

"I have zero faith in the hire."

 

"Let's just say I'm disgusted by both hires. I swear to God the criteria was "what is the worst pieces of #### I can possibly find."  

 

"Yaaaa....we haven't had a guy who traded away the likes of Brent Burns for next to nothing and has TWO 34 year olds signed for 7 more years at 7 mil a year since....well since all the way before Hextall."

 

"

Burns was far from his only bad trade....he's made many. But his drafting is also pretty lame. Holmgren may as well have just stepped back in after leaving the team in shambles after his last stint.

What are Fletchers credentials that are of ANY interest? Minnesota?"

 

" I swear to god he sounds just like Homer from a few years ago."

 

 

I could keep quoting, but I think you get the point. Pretty ringing endorsements from this board right from the getgo. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by flyercanuck

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

He was experienced at doing EXACTLY what he's done in Philly. Make bad trades, sign expensive free agents that aren't worth anything near what he paid, and trade draft picks away for nothing. Thats exactly what he did in Minnesota. I knew that. So did most other people...some just said "Let's wait and see if he changed". It wasn't like people were confident in what he'd done, they hoped he'd learned from it. He didn't. Several of us thought this right out of the gate and wondered out loud WHY Philly would hire a guy with THAT history.

 

Here's some quotes from this board...

 

"yay ?"

 

"Well, they repainted the walls on the Flyer Titanic. Looks good"

 

 

"I hope it works out, obviously.

Uh, he did trade Brent Burns away. 

And he did cripple the Wild with those Parise and Suter contracts which will be on the books until the asteroid hits in Donald Trumps 3rd term.

Needless to say, I don't have the "high hopes". "

 

 "More I don't know how to run a hockey organization properly by the Flyers organization."

 

 

"That is EXACTLY what scared me.

Buh bye top talent pool.

Hello retirement home."

 

"I hope Fletcher - and Holmgren - have learned from past mistakes and put those lessons to good use.  However, I'm not feeling all that great about it."

 

"

Ugh.....  

Here's hoping for the best BUT expecting the worst ...... "

 

"I have zero faith in the hire."

 

"Let's just say I'm disgusted by both hires. I swear to God the criteria was "what is the worst pieces of #### I can possibly find."  

 

"Yaaaa....we haven't had a guy who traded away the likes of Brent Burns for next to nothing and has TWO 34 year olds signed for 7 more years at 7 mil a year since....well since all the way before Hextall."

 

"

Burns was far from his only bad trade....he's made many. But his drafting is also pretty lame. Holmgren may as well have just stepped back in after leaving the team in shambles after his last stint.

What are Fletchers credentials that are of ANY interest? Minnesota?"

 

" I swear to god he sounds just like Homer from a few years ago."

 

 

I could keep quoting, but I think you get the point. Pretty ringing endorsements from this board right from the getgo. 

 

 

 

 

 

I clicked on "good post" because "brilliant post" wasn't available.

 

Some assume those around them know as little as they do.  Your post proves otherwise.

 

Fletcher was a terrible hire, and we all knew it   it wasn't even a difficult call.

 

Let's hope the replacement is sourced by an agency like the coach was.  I wasn't thrilled (to say the least) with Tortorella--and I'm still not sold--but it didn't have the feel of a Holmgren/Flyers hire.  I mean, he's benching tons of money; what Flyers coach does that?

 

So maybe Scott goes outside the Sleestak skulls through an agency and we end up with something new. Maybe someone who's GM'd elsewhere, maybe not. But hopefully a new approach.

 

One that is more in the mold of Hextall.  We can argue over the results but the approach and theory was appropriate, and the Flyers need to get back to it.  And to hell with the mindless fans that don't understand that.

[CoachX]

12 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Yup, I'm sticking to my point, much like you are to yours.

How is John Ferguson Jr. not exactly like a Fletcher????  No hindsight allowed. 

Buffalo was dead last, if you don't think they've righted the ship watch a game. 

Fletcher's firing will be this year's spun excuse. Not from me, from them. It's the usual way. Fire a coach, fire a GM, new direction blah blah blah, that's how the spin continues . Surely you are old enough to have seen that story before. 

 

I hate Fletcher. I've already stated that clearly. 

You realize what you've just dome, right? You are now saying that the firing of CF will be an excuse to cover up for the real problem, the management above him. That's the same management that is grooming DB. So you are saying management is inept, but you trust them with their ability to train and hire him. You are actually making all of our arguments for us

 

[mojo1917]

@flyercanuck

 

I recognize a few words I typed in that post.

I was willing to wait and see what happened.

I think we've all seen enough of the ineptitude by this point; I have, dude's been a disaster.  

I don't see where anyone can be intellectually honest and argue otherwise.

 

[ruxpin]

12 minutes ago, CoachX said:

You realize what you've just dome, right? You are now saying that the firing of CF will be an excuse to cover up for the real problem, the management above him. That's the same management that is grooming DB. So you are saying management is inept, but you trust them with their ability to train and hire him. You are actually making all of our arguments for us

 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't see where anyone can be intellectually competent and argue otherwise

 

Fixed it.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

@flyercanuck

 

I recognize a few words I typed in that post.

I was willing to wait and see what happened.

I think we've all seen enough of the ineptitude by this point; I have, dude's been a disaster.  

I don't see where anyone can be intellectually honest and argue otherwise.

 

 

You were definitely quoted there mojo, as were most of the guys who've been around longer. I didn't quote every single person who wasn't happy about it, I only went to page 2 I think of 6 .

[OccamsRazor]

18 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

it is still a little amazing that the hiring has turned out to be almost worse than you guys predicted.

 

This is where i am at. I heard the voices hating this.

 

I'm not naïve i wasn't at the time up to the knowledge of what he had all done prior but was willing to give it a chance because i understand what you did doesn't always mean you will certainly repeat (sure a high chance you may).

 

Man i am just floored at how right everyone was and even more blow away by how bad he actually has been - because he exceeded their expectations in a worse way imaginable.

 

I just can't fathom on how badly they fc uked this up.

[ruxpin]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

This is where i am at. I heard the voices hating this.

 

I'm not naïve i wasn't at the time up to the knowledge of what he had all done prior but was willing to give it a chance because i understand what you did doesn't always mean you will certainly repeat (sure a high chance you may).

 

Man i am just floored at how right everyone was and even more blow away by how bad he actually has been - because he exceeded their expectations in a worse way imaginable.

 

I just can't fathom on how badly they fc uked this up.

Yes. This. All of this.

 

I mean, you know I was jumping off bridges, but I completely agree this has actually been worse than imagined (and I can--and did--imagine pretty bad things).

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I can--and did--imagine pretty bad things.

 

Bet you didn't think he could turn a 2nd overall pick into a 6 year $6 miilion dollar contract that played 4 games. 

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Bet you didn't think he could turn a 2nd overall pick into a 6 year $6 miilion dollar contract that played 4 games. 

It's the 4 games that superceded my darkest thoughts.

 

I have no reason to believe he wasn't injured before traded for, so epic failure by the (dis) organization if so.

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

It's the 4 games that superceded my darkest thoughts.

 

I have no reason to believe he wasn't injured before traded for, so epic failure by the (dis) organization if so.

 

@flyercanuck

On the other hand, in terms of "on the ice," what did we lose?   In terms of players, that trade worked out for no one.

 

It's the entry contact on the 2nd pick for the big cap hit that is nauseating.   Because like his puppet master, Flucker hasn't the slightest idea how to manage the cap.  There's enough successful case studies out there that it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.  You just have to have to the courage and the stomach to ignore the lemming fans who tell "Hextall didn't sign or trade for anyone [with no picks, no cap, and no outgoing trade bait left him by Holmgren].  It's THAT proven-succesful approach that we need to return to.

[flyercanuck]

26 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

@flyercanuck

On the other hand, in terms of "on the ice," what did we lose?   In terms of players, that trade worked out for no one.

 

It's the entry contact on the 2nd pick for the big cap hit that is nauseating.   Because like his puppet master, Flucker hasn't the slightest idea how to manage the cap.  There's enough successful case studies out there that it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.  You just have to have to the courage and the stomach to ignore the lemming fans who tell "Hextall didn't sign or trade for anyone [with no picks, no cap, and no outgoing trade bait left him by Holmgren].  It's THAT proven-succesful approach that we need to return to.

 

We lost nothing on the ice. We gained yet another terrible contract in the long list of Fletchers terrible contracts.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

We lost nothing on the ice. We gained yet another terrible contract in the long list of Fletchers terrible contracts.

Yes. I eluded to that but distracted myself so never addressed it directly.

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I eluded to tha

 

I'm always found you a very elusive (and foul-mouthed) bear.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Podein25

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I'm always found you a very elusive (and foul-mouthed) bear.

 

[pilldoc]

9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

He was experienced at doing EXACTLY what he's done in Philly. Make bad trades, sign expensive free agents that aren't worth anything near what he paid, and trade draft picks away for nothing. Thats exactly what he did in Minnesota. I knew that. So did most other people...some just said "Let's wait and see if he changed". It wasn't like people were confident in what he'd done, they hoped he'd learned from it. He didn't. Several of us thought this right out of the gate and wondered out loud WHY Philly would hire a guy with THAT history.

 

Here's some quotes from this board...

 

"yay ?"

 

"Well, they repainted the walls on the Flyer Titanic. Looks good"

 

 

"I hope it works out, obviously.

Uh, he did trade Brent Burns away. 

And he did cripple the Wild with those Parise and Suter contracts which will be on the books until the asteroid hits in Donald Trumps 3rd term.

Needless to say, I don't have the "high hopes". "

 

 "More I don't know how to run a hockey organization properly by the Flyers organization."

 

 

"That is EXACTLY what scared me.

Buh bye top talent pool.

Hello retirement home."

 

"I hope Fletcher - and Holmgren - have learned from past mistakes and put those lessons to good use.  However, I'm not feeling all that great about it."

 

"

Ugh.....  

Here's hoping for the best BUT expecting the worst ...... "

 

"I have zero faith in the hire."

 

"Let's just say I'm disgusted by both hires. I swear to God the criteria was "what is the worst pieces of #### I can possibly find."  

 

"Yaaaa....we haven't had a guy who traded away the likes of Brent Burns for next to nothing and has TWO 34 year olds signed for 7 more years at 7 mil a year since....well since all the way before Hextall."

 

"

Burns was far from his only bad trade....he's made many. But his drafting is also pretty lame. Holmgren may as well have just stepped back in after leaving the team in shambles after his last stint.

What are Fletchers credentials that are of ANY interest? Minnesota?"

 

" I swear to god he sounds just like Homer from a few years ago."

 

 

I could keep quoting, but I think you get the point. Pretty ringing endorsements from this board right from the getgo. 

 

 

 

 

 

this says it all and yes I recognize a few of those…. One of them being mine….

 

my thoughts have not changed….

 

simply put…. This team is unwatchable….