M. Tkachuk And 2025 4th to Florida... Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt, 2025 1st To Calgary

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

 

From Calgary's own website:
https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-acquire-huberdeau-weegar/c-335071552

 

Well, just wow.

Flames playing with a bit of fire here? (no pun intended!)
Taking on two players in their late 20's (Weegar and Huberdeau) who will be UFA's at the end of next season?
And still with some other players needing to be signed.

And Florida...NICE get...nay, SUPER get for them with Tkachuk....but, errrr, their weakness the last couple seasons has been their defense.
Tkachuk doesn't address that, while they lose the steady Huber and Weegar.

Gotta admit, I did NOT see the Florida Panthers being players to acquire Matt Tkachuk, but, there he is.

Two Tkachuks in the same division now.....Atlantic just got more interesting from that standpoint.

I would think the Flames and Panthers aren't done.
This trade left both teams with big questions, which I am sure the GM's will need to address.

@Brewin Flames, my friend...hope you are ok... 

Discuss.

[Brewin Flames]

I'm a bit misty....4.45 am, just woke and saw this. Not happy, but it could be worse.

[Brewin Flames]

Matthew Tkachuk heads to Florida Panthers, Jonathan Huberdeau to Calgary Flames in blockbuster trade

SUNRISE, Fla. -- Matthew Tkachuk and Jonathan Huberdeau had the best years of their career this past season.

And now they're changing places in an NHL blockbuster.

 

Tkachuk was traded to the Florida Panthers on Friday night, with Huberdeau part of the haul going to the Calgary Flames for the power forward. Florida also sent defenseman MacKenzie Weegar, prospect Cole Schwindt and a lottery-protected first-round selection in the 2025 NHL draft.

 

"Matthew is a tenacious, physical competitor who possesses a tremendously unique skillset," Panthers general manager Bill Zito said. "He is a consistent elite offensive contributor and has emerged as one of the most complete and dynamic young players in the National Hockey League. We are thrilled to be able to add a generational talent to our lineup."

 

As part of the move, Tkachuk is under contract with Florida through the 2029-30 season now as well, the Panthers said; a person familiar with the terms said it was worth $76 million over those eight years, speaking to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the team had not yet announced it publicly. Tkachuk decided earlier in the week that he would not accept a long-term deal to stay in Calgary -- which immediately led to trade talks and no shortage of suitors around the NHL wanting to land him.

The Panthers, a team that won the Presidents' Trophy this past season for having the NHL's best regular-season record, apparently wanted him more than most.

 

 

They gave up a package headlined by Huberdeau, Florida's career leader in games, assists and points, to make it happen. The move also breaks up one of the top duos in hockey, after Huberdeau and Aleksander Barkov formed a 1-2 punch like few others with Florida in recent years.

 

But it never translated into the type of playoff success that Florida is seeking. The Panthers won a playoff series this past season for the first time since 1996, then got swept by Tampa Bay in the second round and scored only three goals in those four games.

 

"We would like to thank Jonathan and MacKenzie for their immense contributions to the Florida Panthers, both on and off the ice, during their tenures in South Florida," Zito said. "They have both blossomed into exceptional athletes and people. Their contributions as players and people made an indelible mark on our franchise."

Tkachuk had career bests of 42 goals, 62 assists and 104 points this past season for Calgary. Huberdeau tied a career best with 30 goals for Florida, plus set marks with 85 assists and 115 points -- both of those being franchise records for the Panthers as well.

 

The trade means Calgary is without its two leading scorers from this past season. Johnny Gaudreau, who led the Flames with 115 points, signed a seven-year deal with Columbus as a free agent last week.

Huberdeau also was extension-eligible this summer, and the Panthers had a decision to make -- commit to him with a long-term, big-money deal, or look to make another splashy move.

 

Tkachuk is 24, Huberdeau is 29, and that surely was something that went into Florida's thinking when deciding about making an eight-year commitment. Age is one of the few things that separates Tkachuk and Huberdeau on paper: Both are about 6-foot-2; both about 200 pounds, both are left wings, both have averaged about nine points for every 10 games played in their NHL careers. Huberdeau was the No. 3 pick in the 2011 draft, Tkachuk the No. 6 pick in the 2016 draft.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Brewin Flames

[thegx.ca]

Worried whose leaving Calgary next...

[ruxpin]

Florida got fleeced. Period.

 

Tkachuk is a good player, but he's no Huberdeau. And we know Huberdeau has chemistry in Florida.  Maybe one could argue "it's great regular season but didn't happen in playoffs." Really? What worked for Tkachuk in the playoffs? Ever?

 

Maybe Florida thought it was running toward a signing problem next year with Huberdeau.  I don't know. It seems they could have traded that same package elsewhere minute Huberdeau and then signed Huberdeau.

 

I don't get this from any level.

 

For all the gnashing of teeth in Calgary that neither Panther is signed,  neither was Tkachuk.  The Flames ended up with two incredibly marketable players who should each bring a windfall and in the meantime walk away with the pick and prospect.

 

Couldn't do better while holding a gun in one hand and Zito's first born in the other.

 

I see no downside for Calgary here.  And I don't get it for Florida.

Edited July 23, 2022 by ruxpin

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

What a great trade for Calgary. I get that Huberdeau is older, but what a player. Not only that, but I can see givers helping Monahan get back on track and if that happens, that's a HUGE win for the Flames. I've always liked Monahan (huge Ottawa 67s fan) and Monahan can be a difference maker when healthy, which he hasn't been for some time. 

[OccamsRazor]

14 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

What a great trade for Calgary. I get that Huberdeau is older, but what a player. Not only that, but I can see givers helping Monahan get back on track and if that happens, that's a HUGE win for the Flames. I've always liked Monahan (huge Ottawa 67s fan) and Monahan can be a difference maker when healthy, which he hasn't been for some time. 

 

He can't help Monahan he is soft just like a William Nylander.

 

Can't be soft like that and be affective in the playoffs.

 

And that is what is wrong with the Flames come playoff time they have to take it up a notch and they too scared just like what has been said about the two the Flames just lost.

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by OccamsRazor
Stupid phone!!!

[JR Ewing]

If Huberdeau and Weegar sign, this is insane return for Matthew Tkachuk. As it is, Huberdeau for Tkachuk, straight across, would have been a win for the Flames.

 

Weegar and Huberdeau are high end players that are only 28, 29 years old, and you pay those players all day long. It’s even worse because their Stanley Cup window is the next 2-3 years not in 5-6 years. By giving up both players and not having someone to replace Weegar, they made their team actively worse and paid assets to do it. I really like Huberdeau; the way he hangs onto the puck in the offensive zone and finds players for scoring chances. I don't think it was an accident that Anthony Duclair and Sam Bennett all of a sudden saw large bumps in their goal scoring when they got to Florida. I guess we can infer what Barry Zito thought his chance of signing Huberdeau was going to be.

 

Zito and McCrimmon in Vegas were two people who were highly sought after as GMs by fans and management alike, and both have essentially mortgaged their franchise’s future with their inept asset management. Zito had all of the cards and paid way too much. Unbelievable. While I don't like the deal for Florida, I understand what they are doing, since they now have a player that they see as a core guy through his 24 to 31 year old seasons. Tkachuk's Give a Sh|t/60 is off the charts, and he plays with emotion, which the Panthers lacked that this playoff. The problem is that they paid too much to get him.

 

Also, to end the post, feast your eyes on the Panthers draft board until 2026, where their best picks are two 2nd-rounders:

 

 

Barry Zito has to win a Stanley Cup, or he's going home wearing a barrel.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by JR Ewing

[Math]

Probably one of the dumbest deal in the last couple of years. 9/10 on the McDonagh-Gomez scale.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He can't help Monahan he is soft just like just like a William Nylander.

 

Can be soft like that and be affective in the playoffs.

 

And that is what is wrong with the Flames come playoff time they have to take it up a notch and they too scared just like what has been said about the two the Flames just lost.

See,  I don't buy the whole "soft" narrative. Quite frankly, it's a ******** term. Remember when people also said Claude Giroux was soft? Soft is just a lazy teen used to describe players who haven't had success in the playoffs. 

 

Huberdeau has gone into corners, thrown hits, back checked, etc.... he's not lazy by any means. I really think he'll thrive in Calgary and that Sutter will find an extra gear in him. He'll change Huberdeau and Huberdeau will be a better player as a result of it. 

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

See,  I don't buy the whole "soft" narrative. Quite frankly, it's a ******** term. Remember when people also said Claude Giroux was soft? Soft is just a lazy teen used to describe players who haven't had success in the playoffs. 

 

Huberdeau has gone into corners, thrown hits, back checked, etc.... he's not lazy by any means. I really think he'll thrive in Calgary and that Sutter will find an extra gear in him. He'll change Huberdeau and Huberdeau will be a better player as a result of it. 

 

Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse you I was talking about Monahan not Huberdeau.

 

And I am about to turn 51 and not a lazy teen.

 

And you don't have to agree with my opinion on Monahan but I am going off of only what I have seen.

 

So yeah I do not think you can fix softness.

 

We never could do it in bootcamp, they were still soft when they got to their command and they remained soft when they were discharged.

 

Just one man's opinion.

 

I wait for Monahan or Nylander to prove me wrong.

 

And yes Giroux has soften over time.

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by OccamsRazor
Stupid phone!!!

[JR Ewing]

Yeah... Florida's top-4 is now Ekblad, Forsling, Montour and Gudkas. Pretty rough without Weegar there, and combine that with Brobovsky, who is only getting older and other than last year, hasn't been really good for awhile. They have Spencer Knight, but he's only 22. They still have great forward depth but I have a feeling their defence is going to sink them.

 

[pilldoc]

as I said in the other thread ......

 

 

gonna take some time to digest this one ......

[Hockey-78]

What a horrible deal for the Panthers!

I could see some deer in the headlights organization like the Flyers do this but the Panthers... 

 

 

[Math]

1 hour ago, Hockey-78 said:

What a horrible deal for the Panthers!

I could see some deer in the headlights organization like the Flyers do this but the Panthers... 

 

 

Ok, the Panthers won the Presidents' trophy and screwed big time in the playoffs, but it's crazy they decided to push the red button and atomize everything, until going to trade your franchise player. There's plenty of time where teams dominated the regular season and choked in the playoffs before having success: The Stars were epic postseason chokers in the late 1990s before winning the cup, the Lightning had their fortune of deception (remember the 1st round sweep vs. the Jackets), the Avalanche faced their lot of heatbreaking exits before lifting the cup this year, etc. The Panthers already made that mistake under Dale Tallon when they won the division before getting kicked out in the 1st round, followed by another decade of mysery. 

 

While I do understand the Panthers' perspective in terms of cap management (they have signed Tkatchuk and they avoid the risk to lose both Huberdeau and Weegar in free agency), the cost remains insane and the deal is awful. Honestly, I cannot imagine Huberdeau leaving as an UFA. He loved Florida, built his nice house in Miami at his image and repeatedly said how much he loves being there.

 

Now Calgary can be screwed too. Imagine they are in good position in the Pacific, they keep Huberdeau and Weegar, they get pummeled in the 1st round and they lose them both in free agency. Big fail. The odds for a lose-lose trade is quite significant.

[Brewin Flames]

If i am not mistaken didn't Hub have a NTC...if so, he accepted the trade and WANTS to be in Calgary...even that alone is a win.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

1 hour ago, Brewin Flames said:

If i am not mistaken didn't Hub have a NTC...if so, he accepted the trade and WANTS to be in Calgary...even that alone is a win.

 

Hmmm..interesting point.
If that is the case, then getting him to sign to stay rather than walk for nothing shouldn't be a problem for Calgary.

I am sure the Flames would like to keep Weegar on the same way.
He is very much an underrated defenseman...probably one of the more steadier ones that people don't really talk about.

[Math]

According to CapFriendly, he had a limited non-trade clause where he submitted eight teams where he didn't want to be traded. 

[yave1964]

My initial thought was HUGE WIN FOR CALGARY, but now thinking about it all day I am not so sure.

 

Huberdeau and Weegar are UFAs at years end and there is no guarantee the Cats could have signed them.

 

Huberdeau is 29, Tkachuk is 24, a massive difference in terms of future value. when signing a 29 year old to an eight year deal there is a very real chance that you will regret it about halfway in. At 24, full value for the next eight years should be expected out of Tkachuk.

 

  The first they gave up will likely be a late first, value yes, but likely a 30-40 pct chance of a solid career at best.,

 

  The prospect in the deal, Cole Schwindt may develop into a bottom six winger. May. 

 

  Weeger is a fantastic defenseman, one of the better number two defenders in the game. I dont believe he has number one in his future but that is fine, he is a fantastic number two. Problem is to save face on this I could easily see the Flames pay him long term something like 7x7.5 or so which is waaayyy too much and if so would likely set him on the path of demanding to much of himself. 

 

  Huberdeau at 29 had his best year ever. Honestly it was an amazing year but I doubt he ever duplicates it again. He doesnt need to, if he scors 25-65-90 he is still a force, problem is he has a well earned rep for not advancing in the postseason, kind of like Taylor Hall before him. I doubt that changes is Calgary this season and unless they overpay or over term I think he moves on at years end.

 

  So IMHO the deal looks like this, looking at it strictly from a clinical standpoint

 

Tkachuk as one of the elite power forwards in the game today not yet at his peak and signed for eight years through his best years of his career gone to Florida.

 

To Calgary they add a damn fine defenseman who I anticipate they will pay too much and ask too much of, Huberdeau who is likely a one and done unless they give too long a term and risk three or four years at the end of the deal where they regret it, A late first and a B minus or C plus prospect.

 

  Calgary got  a lot, Treiliving deserves props for agressively trying to make the most of a bad situation and if we live in a vacuum he would have won it, but we do not. At the least it is a lot more even than most people think, at most the Panthers win it outright.

 

 

[JR Ewing]

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:06 AM, ruxpin said:

Florida got fleeced. Period.

 

Tkachuk is a good player, but he's no Huberdeau. And we know Huberdeau has chemistry in Florida.  Maybe one could argue "it's great regular season but didn't happen in playoffs." Really? What worked for Tkachuk in the playoffs? Ever?

 

Maybe Florida thought it was running toward a signing problem next year with Huberdeau.  I don't know. It seems they could have traded that same package elsewhere minute Huberdeau and then signed Huberdeau.

 

I don't get this from any level.

 

For all the gnashing of teeth in Calgary that neither Panther is signed,  neither was Tkachuk.  The Flames ended up with two incredibly marketable players who should each bring a windfall and in the meantime walk away with the pick and prospect.

 

Couldn't do better while holding a gun in one hand and Zito's first born in the other.

 

I see no downside for Calgary here.  And I don't get it for Florida.

Florida’s options were try to fit in extending one or two guys long term that will be in their 30s for most of the deal or extending a 24 year old who will be in his prime for about all of it. They made a smart move that people aren’t ready to wrap their head around yet because we are used to seeing contracts handed out that end with players being a broken down drain on the cap…which is why many teams don’t have money right now.

 

Tkachuk scoring over 100 points this past season might be an outlier. But I had high hopes for him for a long time in fantasy and always hoped he would develop into an 85 point multicat guy. He's 24 years old and now cost controlled for years.

 

By all reports  Weegar wants 7 to 8 million and Huberdeau wants 11 million +

 

Typically when you pay 29 year olds that kind of money over 8 years, you accept you are getting 2-3 more elite years and then praying they don't decline too badly in years 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, and you are looking to trade with 50% retention near the end of the deal.

 

I.e Brent Burns, although sharks only retained 30%

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:44 AM, JR Ewing said:

If Huberdeau and Weegar sign, this is insane return for Matthew Tkachuk. As it is, Huberdeau for Tkachuk, straight across, would have been a win for the Flames.

 

Weegar and Huberdeau are high end players that are only 28, 29 years old, and you pay those players all day long. It’s even worse because their Stanley Cup window is the next 2-3 years not in 5-6 years. By giving up both players and not having someone to replace Weegar, they made their team actively worse and paid assets to do it. I really like Huberdeau; the way he hangs onto the puck in the offensive zone and finds players for scoring chances. I don't think it was an accident that Anthony Duclair and Sam Bennett all of a sudden saw large bumps in their goal scoring when they got to Florida. I guess we can infer what Barry Zito thought his chance of signing Huberdeau was going to be.

 

Zito and McCrimmon in Vegas were two people who were highly sought after as GMs by fans and management alike, and both have essentially mortgaged their franchise’s future with their inept asset management. Zito had all of the cards and paid way too much. Unbelievable. While I don't like the deal for Florida, I understand what they are doing, since they now have a player that they see as a core guy through his 24 to 31 year old seasons. Tkachuk's Give a Sh|t/60 is off the charts, and he plays with emotion, which the Panthers lacked that this playoff. The problem is that they paid too much to get him.

 

Also, to end the post, feast your eyes on the Panthers draft board until 2026, where their best picks are two 2nd-rounders:

 

 

Barry Zito has to win a Stanley Cup, or he's going home wearing a barrel.

 

 

I'm not terribly worried about Florida’s draft picks yet.

 

Their core is still of age where you don't fret too much about draft pickd. Most age 24 to 26. Exception to lundell and knight, who are 20 and 22.

 

They do need to secure a defenseman though

[OccamsRazor]

48 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

They do need to secure a defenseman though

 

 

Yandle is available.

 

Ok ok. I'll show myself out...

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

44 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Yandle is available.

 

Ok ok. I'll show myself out...

 

 

Funny thing is, the Panthers have 'been there, done that' with Yandle. 
I mean, where you do you think your boys got him from?

Yandle was bought out by Florida...only to have Philadelphia pick him up off the trash heap.  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I still say Florida and Calgary have to make some other deal to compliment this big one they did with each other.

I want to say Florida got the "best player in the deal moving forward", but Jonathan Huberdeau is no slouch in the production department either for Calgary.
Thing is, Tkachuk is such a combination of workmanlike grind and goal scoring, plus being 5 years younger, that I think it puts him over the top as the best player in this deal.

But back to more deals....
Florida's Achilles Heel seems to be that defense, though some may want to put Bobrovsky as being a weakness as well, though you wouldn't know it by his regular seasons anyway.
As good as Tkachuk is, he doesn't address Florida's weak points.
And abuse of the Florida defense is one of the  main reasons the Lightning swept away the President's trophy winning Panthers.
They should be on the prowl to add a solid defenseman somehow.

As for Calgary, if they can manage to keep both Weegar and Huberdeau on past this coming season, then one could say they did very well as has been mentioned by others already.
But, they would need a contingency plan if one or both of those players decided they want to go elsewhere after the 22-23 season.
So, I'd look for Calgary to try and get some up n coming player to add to their roster, some RFA maybe they can trade the rights for.

Or maybe even just pick up some project player they can start working with right now.
An Ondrej Kase, Sonny Milano, or Sam Steel whom Anaheim left unsigned.

If the Flames can ride things out this season, they will have Milan Lucic and Sean Monahan coming off their books (around 11.5M in cap space), so that will create room for other signings.