RonJeremy Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 14 hours ago, ruxpin said: Agree. Fiala was "site and situation" this year. He's simply not worth this. And absolutely not worth the Konecny + 1st drunken insanity in the shoutbox today. If Fiala got that return and he's an UFA, then Konecny who is better and has 3 more years at a very good rate is worth the 7th or 8th pick and a prospect. Of course the only way this trade works is if Schmuck picks the right player and gets the right prospect....and what are the chances of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: If Fiala got that return and he's an UFA, then Konecny who is better and has 3 more years at a very good rate is worth the 7th or 8th pick and a prospect. Of course the only way this trade works is if Schmuck picks the right player and gets the right prospect....and what are the chances of that? Fiala just played a season with Kiril Kasprizov where he played significant minutes with the thrill. Konecny just spent a season dragging Oscar Lindblom around the rink for 14 minutes a night. I think Konecny is probably a better player than Fiala, but I do think they are similar in many ways. Switch their situations and you're probably right. Also, as @flyer4ever noted, a late first round pick and a second rounder in this year's draft may not even make the league. So, it's not like this deal was a shoo in bucket of awesome for everyone. Edited June 30, 2022 by mojo1917 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 44 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Fiala just played a season with Kiril Kasprizov where he played significant minutes with the thrill. Konecny just spent a season dragging Oscar Lindblom around the rink for 14 minutes a night. I think Konecny is probably a better player than Fiala, but I do think they are similar in many ways. Switch their situations and you're probably right. Also, as @flyer4ever noted, a late first round pick and a second rounder in this year's draft may not even make the league. So, it's not like this deal was a shoo in bucket of awesome for everyone. This is true, getting a draft pick is one thing, picking the right player with that pick is another. In all likelihood the Flyers won't be a playoff team, so if a great deal comes our way, then maybe there's some kind of trade at the draft. If not, then there is always the trade deadline when teams overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 16 hours ago, ruxpin said: Agree. Fiala was "site and situation" this year. He's simply not worth this. And absolutely not worth the Konecny + 1st drunken insanity in the shoutbox today. I feel it is a huge over pay because the guy has had one 33 goal season. Which he just came off of good for him but i think he is the guy who best season he scored 23 goals twice than the guy who put up 33 goals and 85 points. And how many times have we seen guys capitalize on that type of success??? If you will for lack of a better comparison off the top of my head but Jake Voracek, he too was more the guy who put up 20 goals/62 point a season and not the guy who had one 85 points season (he did have one earlier 81 point season). And IIRC it was his 81 point season that got him that huge contract - which we all hated to this date. And well had this been the Flyers too give up a 1st round pick and a good prospect for a guy you could have just offered a contract once he got to the market a huge over pay in my eyes. Had he had a couple years left on a contract with a good cap hit yes then you give up the assets for him - but to me if felt like they bid against themselves. But hey it's just one man's opinion...and not the team i follow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Well I'm not sure an 8-year / $62mil contract - signed when he was what, 28? - is all that "team friendly" but you make a good point nonetheless: Main point being that the Flyers still have the player they drafted and Hamilton would likely not be on the roster. Couturier is "team friendly" in that he probably forewent enough per year to pay an additional player on the 3/4 line. 3 hours ago, RonJeremy said: The problem I see is ,you have Coots and Hayes two big slow guys over thirty coming off surgery with long term big contracts. Right, the question was "Hamilton or Couturier" and I still think the correct answer for the Flyers was Couturier. And of the two to your point the problem is Hayes... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, radoran said: Main point being that the Flyers still have the player they drafted and Hamilton would likely not be on the roster. Couturier is "team friendly" in that he probably forewent enough per year to pay an additional player on the 3/4 line. Right, the question was "Hamilton or Couturier" and I still think the correct answer for the Flyers was Couturier. And of the two to your point the problem is Hayes... I think it's really Vladimir Putins fault 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Fiala wasn't a UFA though. He was an RFA. And he wasn't on the Kaprizov. He played with Matthew Boldy and Freddy Gaudreau. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) As for Konecny, I was listening to one of the Flyers podcasts and they had someone who hosts an Ottawa Senators podcast and the talk in Ottawa was Konecny and a 2023 2nd to Ottawa for the Sens 7th overall choice and Ridly Greig. Edit: Locked On Flyers is the n name of the podcast. Edited June 30, 2022 by BobbyClarkeFan16 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 @radoran @mojo1917 I’m sure he could’ve signed for more somewhere else (AAV, but not for 8 years) but I just don’t believe an 8-year contract for a 28-year old is good for a team unless the player happens to be a superstar. As much as I like Couturier he’s not that. But I’m not complaining I liked him from the beginning and still do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Fiala wasn't a UFA though. He was an RFA. And he wasn't on the Kaprizov. He played with Matthew Boldy and Freddy Gaudreau. Ok. Well this changes things. I was thinking he was a UFA. So now I get what they gave up. Hey they are rolling the dice I get it. Fiala is proven if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: As for Konecny, I was listening to one of the Flyers podcasts and they had someone who hosts an Ottawa Senators podcast and the talk in Ottawa was Konecny and a 2023 2nd to Ottawa for the Sens 7th overall choice and Ridly Greig. Edit: Locked On Flyers is the n name of the podcast. That’s actually a good move for Philly, I believe Grieg is a center, so then we can draft Jiracek and Gauthier or Kemmel. So you get a center, wing and dman…that’s how you do that rebuild that Fletcher said we don’t need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 The interesting thing when discussing trade rumors, is fans usually discuss from the position that the player is a good guy and his stat performance is the determining factor. It reads like trading TK is a simple matter or age, contract and stats. What we don't know is how he is valued by other GMs based on info they are privy to, that we aren't. None of us know if TK is an ahole, or unhappy being in Philly. We also don't know if he is working his butt off to be better, loves Philly, and is just having a rough patch. What we do know is, he was on fire, made the all star team, and then declined. He hasnt reached that level again. It's anyone's guess as to why If he gets traded, it won't break my heart. If he stays I will root for him to return to form. If the trade helped remove players that I loathe, YAY! If it helps bring in a player consistently better than him, YAY x2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 19 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: As for Konecny, I was listening to one of the Flyers podcasts and they had someone who hosts an Ottawa Senators podcast and the talk in Ottawa was Konecny and a 2023 2nd to Ottawa for the Sens 7th overall choice and Ridly Greig. Edit: Locked On Flyers is the n name of the podcast. I would make this deal, it would be nice if it wasn't the only such move of this type he makes. It would also indicate that the Flyers are in on Bedard, and are not trying to just miss the playoffs next year. It would be a 180 for chuckles to actually get apparent value in a trade. So far that hasn't really been the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, flyer4ever said: I would make this deal, it would be nice if it wasn't the only such move of this type he makes. It would also indicate that the Flyers are in on Bedard, and are not trying to just miss the playoffs next year. It would be a 180 for chuckles to actually get apparent value in a trade. So far that hasn't really been the case. I would, too. He's a center that's got a big edge to his game, and the Flyers need more of those type of players that they can bring up through their system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) @FD19372 @flyer4ever @RonJeremy How much do think the Ellis situation ( apparently he's not getting any better - Snow the Goalie ) and Farabee's injury will factor into what is done this year ? I wouldn't be surprised if that dude (Ellis) is going to ride out his career on the LITR. My fear is the answer will be "not enough". I have never been a proponent of bottoming out, my baseball team is on it's 3rd try with that ********, so there's no guarantee that the players picked when the team has first pick will be generational talents. This is the one time where I have been thinking it's time for the Flyers to cut bait. The "optimistic outlook" is pretty bleak, why not see which kids will be Tortorella players, get some other young guys and load up on 23 picks and try building something next year? Build around 14, 79, 6 and 9. It really feels like the F/A players ,the guys available for trade, and contracts on the Flyers, all point to not going hard for a roster reshape this year. Edit: Anyone else can feel free to chime in too... Edited July 1, 2022 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, CoachX said: What we do know is, he was on fire, made the all star team, and then declined. He hasnt reached that level again. It's anyone's guess as to why I don’t think it’s much of a mystery. Generally speaking players rise and fall with the team and the Flyers have truly sucked for ___ pick ‘em___ years. I think that explains most of Konecny’s decline because he’s not the only one. He’s not even the most confounding one (that’s Provorov). Almost every player struggled just to maintain never mind improve. That’s when you know it’s not about individual ups and downs it’s team-wide malaise. The big “anyone’s guess” right now is whether Fletcher helps or screws the team this summer. And then there’s Tortorella… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Just run it back add Sandstrom to the backup spot in place of Jones and see what they have next offseason. I can see them moving JVR at the trade deadline. Maybe even Sanheim if they know they can't resign him. Then i think long and hard about buying out Hayes if he bombs again. I would also explore first maybe picking up half his salary even to move him but if picking up half of JVR's salary brought nothing well i expect Hayes bring about the same. Why wait. By then Chuckles will surely be fired. Cap Hit Calculations SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS CAP HIT (PHI) 2023-24 $6,500,000 $7,142,857 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 $4,888,889 $2,253,968 2024-25 $4,000,000 $7,142,857 $1,250,000 $1,611,111 $2,861,111 $2,388,889 $4,753,968 2025-26 $4,000,000 $7,142,857 $1,250,000 $1,611,111 $2,861,111 $2,388,889 $4,753,968 2026-27 $0 $0 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 -$1,611,111 $1,611,111 2027-28 $0 $0 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 -$1,611,111 $1,611,111 2028-29 $0 $0 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 -$1,611,111 $1,611,111 TOTAL $14,500,000 $21,428,571 $2,500,000 $9,666,667 $12,166,667 $4,833,333 $16,595,237 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Just run it back add Sandstrom to the backup spot in place of Jones and see what they have next offseason. I can see them moving JVR at the trade deadline. Maybe even Sanheim if they know they can't resign him. Then i think long and hard about buying out Hayes if he bombs again. I would also explore first maybe picking up half his salary even to move him but if picking up half of JVR's salary brought nothing well i expect Hayes bring about the same. Why wait. By then Chuckles will surely be fired. Cap Hit Calculations SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS CAP HIT (PHI) 2023-24 $6,500,000 $7,142,857 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 $4,888,889 $2,253,968 2024-25 $4,000,000 $7,142,857 $1,250,000 $1,611,111 $2,861,111 $2,388,889 $4,753,968 2025-26 $4,000,000 $7,142,857 $1,250,000 $1,611,111 $2,861,111 $2,388,889 $4,753,968 2026-27 $0 $0 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 -$1,611,111 $1,611,111 2027-28 $0 $0 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 -$1,611,111 $1,611,111 2028-29 $0 $0 $0 $1,611,111 $1,611,111 -$1,611,111 $1,611,111 TOTAL $14,500,000 $21,428,571 $2,500,000 $9,666,667 $12,166,667 $4,833,333 $16,595,237 Nice to see you're back to your normal posting self again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, CoachX said: Nice to see you're back to your normal posting self again I'm never normal... ...besides i am giving them something new to tell us all why it will never work stuff to post about.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: The big “anyone’s guess” right now is whether Fletcher helps or screws the team this summer. And then there’s Tortorella… I don't think Tortorella is going to be bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I don't think Tortorella is going to be bad. I'm good with this. Let's see what Torts can get out of Chuckles vision. Sure Ellis is the Wild card. I hope he can contribute. Edited July 2, 2022 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 22 hours ago, CoachX said: What we do know is, he was on fire, made the all star team, and then declined. He hasnt reached that level again. It's anyone's guess as to why He plays on a team that practically every prospect has regressed on over the last 2 seasons. I doubt watching JVR and Haysee cashing in $7 million dollar cheques while playing with beer league effort is much of a motivation. Then there's the GM chipping away piece by piece with each idiotic move. And the whole Flyer philosophy of "if you can't do your job worth a crap you get a promotion". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: He plays on a team that practically every prospect has regressed on over the last 2 seasons. I doubt watching JVR and Haysee cashing in $7 million dollar cheques while playing with beer league effort is much of a motivation. Then there's the GM chipping away piece by piece with each idiotic move. And the whole Flyer philosophy of "if you can't do your job worth a crap you get a promotion". Good points. However, at the time TK started his downward trend, the Flyers weren't this bad. As I recall, AV had them winning and they made that playoff run. Tk just didn't step up. I know, neither did the rest of the team, but the point is, if he was playing the way he did before the all star game, maybe things could've been different. It didn't look to me like it was a result of being on a bad team. With rumors about lockerroom turmoil, I always wondered if he was in the middle of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 Two first round picks and Travis Konecny. The Flyers don't develop young talent well, anyway. Do it, Chuck. Of course, we Flyers fans know they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 On 7/2/2022 at 10:58 AM, CoachX said: With rumors about lockerroom turmoil, I always wondered if he was in the middle of that I hope that there is a younger group that wants to get past the definitely a playoff team era and get to establishing their own identity. We'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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