A Speculative 2022 Flyers Off Season Rebuild

[GratefulFlyers]

15 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

They do not have any elite level prospects, are not well stocked in extra draft picks, do not have ample cap space due to 6 albatross contracts. They can't take on salary from cap strapped teams, which usually means a pick or prospect coming back (see Ghost), they can't  even take on young talent from cash strapped teams.

 

Well sure if you wanna nitpick...I mean besides this they're in good shape right?

[SCFlyguy]

13 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

And Hayes, well, BEFORE he was a Flyer, showed lots of upside, but HE would actually be the type of player I was alluding to earlier that was just slapped into the Flyers and hope it works.

I’m sorry, but I’ve gotta respond here.  I saw lots of Rangers games and Hayes was completely overrated when he was there.  It’s no surprise that Rangers management chose to get rid of him instead of make him part of their rebuild, like Kreider.  Also no surprise that the Jets chose not to keep him (or even play him in the playoffs at points) after spending draft picks on him.  There was no upside to signing him, other teams had already gotten his best years, which were average at best.  The Flyers got exactly what you would expect from signing Kevin Hayes.

[flyer4ever]

Pro scouting might not be very good, or they might be really good and just don't have a voice in the room, or most likely this was just another Paul (I'm an idiot)Holmgren order from on high. And here we are today at the bottom with little prospect of getting better, due to insane contracts for lousy players.

[GratefulFlyers]

I saw a good bit of Hayes with the Rangers too. I'd say @TropicalFruitGirl26's point about Hayes' upside is correct but it only applies to his rookie year. He did have a good first year skating with St. Louis and Hagelin. But after that he settled into a ~45pt guy. His game was well-known and (it seems) baked in before he got to Philly.

 

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

The Flyers got exactly what you would expect from signing Kevin Hayes.

 

No doubt. Hayes is what he is. Fletcher wildly, irresponsibly overpaid him. Kevin "50-Pts-Or-Bust" Hayes for 4 more seasons and they'll all likely be "Bust" as he's only got one >50pt season in 10 tries.

 

//my usual rag on KH

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

There was no upside to signing him,

well 45 points is 45 points.

But yours is spot on.

He was not going to improve, he was going to be what he was, a decent 45/50 guy that can play on the PK and 2nd PP.

If they'd paid him 5.5 x5 it looks a lot better, heck even Andrew MacDonald money would be a slight overpay. But easier to move.

It is easy to say everyone sucks and are stupid too.

But Hayes is pretty okay at hockey. His big minus is he's not a fast skater, but he can kill penalties, and he can make smart plays; And he's certainly not going to be the best player on any team.

I think everyone has checked out this season, so judging his bad play in these last two weeks is as much about the environment as it is the player .

 

If Hayes is the 3rd option at a better aav he wouldn't be the whipping boy (forwards) for everyone. 

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle though- so there's that, at this point he's not a guy I would want to build around but he's not "the worst" either. 

His contract is preventative for actually being able to build a team.

Needless to say the situation with the team is far from ideal.

[Teddal5678]

Here’s the deal. First - Flyers fans need to get their heads out of their asses with this decades long loyalty to losing. Every time we go on a 4 game winning streak or we make an offseason move that tickles the grundle of these thirsty little puppies in orange and black, the fans scream “Lord Stanley here we come!” Stop that. Hold this team accountable for its habitual losing, it’s chronic mediocrity, it’s awfully dependable way of bumbling things. Until you produce a team that competes for a championship, you get no love.

 

Second, Claude Giroux is a prime example of how we fall in love with guys who’ve gotten us no where and recycle them through now decades of laundry that comes out soiled. He’s doing great in Florida with a mighty cast of skilled players we couldn’t provide him and that’s where he needs to stay. No Hextall, no Tocchet, no Brind’amour. Okay maybe we can keep the door open for #17. But anyway, we need new blood that soaks it’s employer in playoff success. No retreads. Whatever it cost. GM and coach. Don’t care we’re paying the old coach millions to be unemployed- this team owes us for years of futility and that’s how you pay it back. Through good old green colored “I’m sorrys.” Next year- rid yourself of any guy over 28 that you can and play the **** outta the young guys.

 

Evaluate who stays and who goes, make deadline deals and summer cuts so 2 years from now the new winning leadership has a stable of players to build with. Free Agents - bring Johnny G home? Absolutely. Nab any other guy of superior talent and prime age, YES! Don’t be dumb, talent wins. Goaltending - keep looking for the guy who wins you games. He’s out there. Carter Hart is fine til that guy comes along. If Hart turns into that guy- praise the Lord! Gritty- he’s now less of a fan distraction and more of an incredible mascot! Let’s Flyucking Goooooo!!!! 

Edited May 1, 2022 by pilldoc

[flyer4ever]

John Gaudreau turns 29 on August 13. 

[Teddal5678]

24 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

John Gaudreau turns 29 on August 13. 

Yup. That’s prime age. SUPERIOR TALENT. Make sure Van Riemsdyk is spelled correctly on this year’s birthday jersey! 

[flyer4ever]

27 minutes ago, Teddal5678 said:

Yup. That’s prime age. SUPERIOR TALENT. Make sure Van Riemsdyk is spelled correctly on this year’s birthday jersey! 

I'm trying to figure out your plan. You want to gas everyone over 28 and sign a 29? If you give JG max term, which is what he will want, he will be 37 and undersized at the end of the deal. I will take a hard pass, unless he'll sign a 2 year contract. I do like the gas the over 28s though. I might even dial it back to 26.

But we dream with Holmtard and Chuckles still around.

 

[FD19372]

On 4/29/2022 at 1:04 PM, GratefulFlyers said:

I saw a good bit of Hayes with the Rangers too. I'd say @TropicalFruitGirl26's point about Hayes' upside is correct but it only applies to his rookie year. He did have a good first year skating with St. Louis and Hagelin. But after that he settled into a ~45pt guy. His game was well-known and (it seems) baked in before he got to Philly.

 

 

No doubt. Hayes is what he is. Fletcher wildly, irresponsibly overpaid him. Kevin "50-Pts-Or-Bust" Hayes for 4 more seasons and they'll all likely be "Bust" as he's only got one >50pt season in 10 tries.

 

//my usual rag on KH

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hayes, to my knowledge, now has a MODIFIED no trade clause. So, I would do all I can, to convince him to move on. The Flyers needed a second line center at the time of the contract, and vastly overpaid for Hayes mostly based on his relationship with Vigneault and being a favorite of his. Now, with AV gone, his value is diminished.. and it is time for him to go based on age and production. They need to get faster and more physical...and he serves neither of those purposes.

[flyer4ever]

 

Not sure what his purpose is. Hanging out with the training staff perhaps. Maybe teaching the youngsters the art if the blind pass.

[flyercanuck]

37 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Hayes, to my knowledge, now has a MODIFIED no trade clause. So, I would do all I can, to convince him to move on. The Flyers needed a second line center at the time of the contract, and vastly overpaid for Hayes mostly based on his relationship with Vigneault and being a favorite of his. Now, with AV gone, his value is diminished.. and it is time for him to go based on age and production. They need to get faster and more physical...and he serves neither of those purposes.

 

What are you going to add to Hayes and that contract to get rid of him? Nobodies taking that on without some icing.

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

What are you going to add to Hayes and that contract to get rid of him? Nobodies taking that on without some icing.

Here ya go! I apologize for it not being icing.  

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by FD19372

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

Here ya go! I apologize for it not being icing.  

 

 

That's waaaaay better than icing! 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

What are you going to add to Hayes and that contract to get rid of him? Nobodies taking that on without some icing.

 

Exactly maybe after this season (2022-23) offer to pick up half his salary even to more him.

 

This year he is helping for Bedard then he can fcuk off...

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[flyer4ever]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Exactly maybe after this season (2022-23) offer to pick up half his salary even to more him.

 

This year he is helping for Bedard then he can fcuk off...

 

Yup. Extend Yandle too.

[Teddal5678]

9 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

I'm trying to figure out your plan. You want to gas everyone over 28 and sign a 29? If you give JG max term, which is what he will want, he will be 37 and undersized at the end of the deal. I will take a hard pass, unless he'll sign a 2 year contract. I do like the gas the over 28s though. I might even dial it back to 26.

But we dream with Holmtard and Chuckles still around.

 

There isn’t one vet on this team worth keeping. Anyone ON THIS TEAM who we can shed over 28, do it. Yes, singing Gaudreau is worth it if it happened. If it didn’t, fine. But are you anticipating he’ll shrink by the ripe age of 37? He’ll be undersized? Listen to what you’re saying lol 

[flyer4ever]

8 hours ago, Teddal5678 said:

There isn’t one vet on this team worth keeping. Anyone ON THIS TEAM who we can shed over 28, do it. Yes, singing Gaudreau is worth it if it happened. If it didn’t, fine. But are you anticipating he’ll shrink by the ripe age of 37? He’ll be undersized? Listen to what you’re saying lol 

Ok you win sign him.

[Teddal5678]

1 hour ago, flyer4ever said:

Ok you win sign him.

Not looking to win just reading helps. 

[Teddal5678]

41 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Don't worry.  He's not going anywhere.  First off, Treliving(Calgary's GM) has already publicly stated they are going to do everything they can to keep him.  Second, why would he want to leave a competitive Calgary team that has a solid chance at winning a Cup or two?  Especially if they have a successful playoff this season.  Third, he has a 5 team NTC clause.  Why on earth would he choose this mess of an organization as one of those 5 teams when he's on a team like Calgary that's ready to pay him what he'll demand?  Because he's a Jersey kid?  Please.  That's ridiculously unrealistic.  The only people who believe that don't realize what it means to win a Cup, be on a competitive team, and be a part of a stable organization.

 

On top of all that, there's absolutely no chance that Chuck is even remotely capable of managing this team's cap debacle to fit a contract that Gaudreau would be offered by an incompetent GM like Chuck.  It's not happening.  It's absolutely not worth it for a team like this with it's many needs.  Nor should it happen.  It shouldn't even be something being considered by this front office, if they actually have any bit of competence at all.

I don’t disagree with any of what you’re saying. It all makes sense and I would imagine Ha’s plenty of traction. The only wrench to be thrown into all of that sound reasoning is the idea that he wants to come home. Never read any quotes directly from him, yet the media has drummed that story up a bit. Sometimes smoke leads to fire, sometimes not. He certainly wouldn’t make them a winner alone yet there needs to be a starting point. He might be the type of signing that is a year or 2 too early but we’ll see. 

[GratefulFlyers]

3 hours ago, Teddal5678 said:

He might be the type of signing that is a year or 2 too early but we’ll see. 

 

You'd prefer to wait and sign Gaudreau in a "year or 2?" Or did I misunderstand you?

[flyer4ever]

6 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Don't worry.  He's not going anywhere.  First off, Treliving(Calgary's GM) has already publicly stated they are going to do everything they can to keep him.  Second, why would he want to leave a competitive Calgary team that has a solid chance at winning a Cup or two?  Especially if they have a successful playoff this season.  Third, he has a 5 team NTC clause.  Why on earth would he choose this mess of an organization as one of those 5 teams when he's on a team like Calgary that's ready to pay him what he'll demand?  Because he's a Jersey kid?  Please.  That's ridiculously unrealistic.  The only people who believe that don't realize what it means to win a Cup, be on a competitive team, and be a part of a stable organization.

 

On top of all that, there's absolutely no chance that Chuck is even remotely capable of managing this team's cap debacle to fit a contract that Gaudreau would be offered by an incompetent GM like Chuck.  It's not happening.  It's absolutely not worth it for a team like this with it's many needs.  Nor should it happen.  It shouldn't even be something being considered by this front office, if they actually have any bit of competence at all.

I don't recommend any big ticket UFA signings. Flyerland is already full of bad contracts that will inhibit the team from being a legitimate contender for 4 or 5 years. Wait and see though, they are coming, and perhaps some insane offer sheets too.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyer4ever said:

I don't recommend any big ticket UFA signings. Flyerland is already full of bad contracts that will inhibit the team from being a legitimate contender for 4 or 5 years. Wait and see though, they are coming, and perhaps some insane offer sheets too.

 

I don't think they have the cap to so with the kids needing new contracts plus a backup goalie.

 

Thanks to Chuckles awesome signing and cap management it is what it is...

[OccamsRazor]

Well this is  bummer hate it for the kid.

 

 

But we know he tried like hell.

 

But quality of life is everything I wish him well.

[GratefulFlyers]

Well that sucks ... seems Morin worked as hard as you possibly can to get back on the ice, to have an NHL career.