Post Deadline Evaluation

[GrittyForever]

idk if this topic needs to be here or not but why not?

 

Giroux, not enough return imo. They were tied by the no trade but I still think they should have gotten more. 

 

Braun? Fair value for an obvious move.

 

Brassard? Glad he's gone. Meager return. 

 

Signing Risto (if you want to include that) dumb and dumber. 

 

No big surprises, no big creative moves, no unloading of dead weight like JVR so I'm thinking what I feared they think is what they think. Going to blame it all on the Ellis and other injuries and tell us all this team's close. 

 

This will be long, slow, and painful. 

[SCFlyguy]

13 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Going to blame it all on the Ellis and other injuries and tell us all this team's close. 

Don't tell us that Ellis wouldn't have been a difference maker.

 

This team could have been 6th or even 7th worst in the league if they had him for a full season.

[mojo1917]

44 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Don't tell us that Ellis wouldn't have been a difference maker

So you're saying he is a difference maker then?

 

@GrittyForever

 

If there is to be a "big creative move" - or moves  to change the nature of the team, it won't happen at the trade deadline.

Trades like that happen in the summer around the draft and then also around the opening of free agency.

 

I have heard that groundwork gets laid for these moves at this time, but for most GMs, they are focused on getting the most out of their season. Because this Flyers season has been such a disappointment, Chuck is operating in a different space from his colleagues. 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

So you're saying he is a difference maker then?

 

@GrittyForever

 

If there is to be a "big creative move" - or moves  to change the nature of the team, it won't happen at the trade deadline.

Trades like that happen in the summer around the draft and then also around the opening of free agency.

 

I have heard that groundwork gets laid for these moves at this time, but for most GMs, they are focused on getting the most out of their season. Because this Flyers season has been such a disappointment, Chuck is operating in a different space from his colleagues. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this turning into an Eichel thing with surgery. WTF is going on with this guy and why does always have to be the Flyers who are the laughing stock of the NHL.

 

 

 

HTF do you not know what you want to do now?

 

What more is there to learn? Wait for?

 

Never seen nothing like it.

[flyer4ever]

So what is this group after with our once beloved Flyers? 

I am in the BI TFU camp, have been for 6 years. IMHO, healthy Couts and Ellis and Giroux resigning is still a bubble maybe playoff team with zero chance of advancing to a conference final. The prospect cupboard is barren of top 6 top pairing guys. 

Is this what Flyers fans want? If that's what you want, Chuck can surely deliver. Me personally, no thanks. 

What is the end goal? I ask with all due respect, we are all frazzled by the turn of events, I hope we can have a healthy debate without name calling . 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

is still a bubble maybe playoff team

 

You know this.

 

It still means it is a chance and that is all they think they need.

 

All they want is a swing at the piñata.

 

Scott is either leading the charge or buying in.

 

It isn't going to change this offseason.

 

Just new deck chairs.

[RonJeremy]

18 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

idk if this topic needs to be here or not but why not?

 

Giroux, not enough return imo. They were tied by the no trade but I still think they should have gotten more. 

 

Braun? Fair value for an obvious move.

 

Brassard? Glad he's gone. Meager return. 

 

Signing Risto (if you want to include that) dumb and dumber. 

 

No big surprises, no big creative moves, no unloading of dead weight like JVR so I'm thinking what I feared they think is what they think. Going to blame it all on the Ellis and other injuries and tell us all this team's close. 

 

This will be long, slow, and painful. 

No one wanted JVR at the deadline,  he can probably be moved in the offseason but it will cost us picks and we probably have to eat half the contract.  To dump Ghost ,a good player with a reasonable contract,  we had to pay a second round pick. So for JVR, the useless fat mope and his bloated contract it will cost more . Most likely it would be at next year's deadline where a playoff team wants that wants  a scorer(lol) for the playoff run, and at that point we might even get a pick, it all depends on how JVR plays next year.

[mojo1917]

@flyer4ever

I have never seen a tear down and rebuild work. 

The Oil have 2 of the best players in league, they picked first how many times over a 10 year span? Only now, almost 30 years after their heyday are they back to being a threat. 

Buffalo looks like they could get good again, but I said that 6 years ago and 10 years before that...

The Pens were terrible at the right time and lucked into 3 great players at the top of the draft

Chicago was terrible for a generation and finally got some luck When they drafted Kane and Towes. 

Getting rid of good players to be terrible is a fool's errand IMO. For every McDavid there are 10's of Tavares and Patricks.

 

So, I don't subscribe to "trade everyone over 23- and build from ground zero".

 

What I would like to see is the team build an identity.

It doesn't have to be the old bullies, but I would like team that can skate and is physically hard to play against.

The Pens have that kind of identity right now.

Tampa, Calgary, Carolina, even Boston all play a certain style of hockey unique to their teams.

I would like to see an identity formed for the Flyers.

If it means drafting big players with good straight line speed and big shots, okay, stick with it for a while.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some bigger swings with draft picks, a team full of Laughton's (high floor/low ceiling types) has been the Modus Operandi for too long. There needs to be guys that can create their own space or change the momentum of a game because the puck finds their stick.

 

 

The NHL is a parity league. 

The difference between winning and losing is a bounce here or a mistake there. 

There aren't very many teams that beat your ass just walking off the bus.

 

Even though the phrase "get in and anything can happen" gets a lot of negative play here, there is a kernel of truth to it.

Whether it's luck of the draw or health, one never knows what's going to happen. Look at last season's Habs team.

The Flyers finally have a championship calibre goalie. 

Build a team of big, fast roughnecks to play in front of him. 

 

 

 

[GrittyForever]

5 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

So you're saying he is a difference maker then?

 

@GrittyForever

 

If there is to be a "big creative move" - or moves  to change the nature of the team, it won't happen at the trade deadline.

Trades like that happen in the summer around the draft and then also around the opening of free agency.

 

I have heard that groundwork gets laid for these moves at this time, but for most GMs, they are focused on getting the most out of their season. Because this Flyers season has been such a disappointment, Chuck is operating in a different space from his colleagues. 

 

 

 

 

Well that's definitely true. Was hoping they'd come up with some form of salary retention deal with one or more of the stiffs that somebody might think could help on a cup run if their price was lower. Like thinking they could add JVR to their PP or something. 

 

Anything really. 

[GrittyForever]

55 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

No one wanted JVR at the deadline,  he can probably be moved in the offseason but it will cost us picks and we probably have to eat half the contract.  To dump Ghost ,a good player with a reasonable contract,  we had to pay a second round pick. So for JVR, the useless fat mope and his bloated contract it will cost more . Most likely it would be at next year's deadline where a playoff team wants that wants  a scorer(lol) for the playoff run, and at that point we might even get a pick, it all depends on how JVR plays next year.

Inside I know this right, but I was still hoping. 

[JR Ewing]

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@flyer4ever

I have never seen a tear down and rebuild work. 

 

Losing on purpose is really easy to do, but getting back to winning after that is a lot harder.

 

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The Oil have 2 of the best players in league, they picked first how many times over a 10 year span? Only now, almost 30 years after their heyday are they back to being a threat. 

 

 

This is off-topic from the Flyers, but I present it as both a warning and an act of self flagallation.

 

In fairness... The 1st overalls were over a 6-year period, with the 6th one coming out of left field. It's a miserable record, but not a decade of earnestly trying to get the #1. There have been several distinct eras of Oilers hockey, as I see it:

 

1984 thru 1990, Dynasty - plus 1991 and '92, where the fumes of that group went to 2 Conference Finals.

1993 thru 1996 - complete rebuild after the fire sale.

1997 thru 2006 - Glen Sather as GM thru 1999, Kevin Lowe the rest of the way) plucky teams which fought and scrapped for every win through astonishingly lean financial times. There were a number of years where they had so little money that they didn't even have a farm system, and were lending out players to other team's AHL affiliates. They had tremendous difficulty developing players due to these constraints, and those they could develop would be traded when they reached their prime because they couldn't afford to keep them. I dare anybody to consistently develop players and contend like that, but everybody laughed at their ineptitude all the same. They made playoffs 9 times in 11 years, culminating in a 7-game Stanley Cup loss to Carolina. Haha...

 

Here's where they lose the plot

 

2007 thru - After losing in the Finals, Lowe loses much of the core of the team due to circumstances beyond his control, but having been so close to winning, he thinks that a move or two will get them there again. He gets into a contract fight with Ryan Smyth over $150,000. Smyth is moved for pennies on the dollar, and the Oilers go from playoff contention to a distant bell. When Mike Comrie tells Lowe that he wants to be moved, Lowe is incensed, but agrees. After getting Brian Burkey to agree to a straight-up trade of Comrie for Corey Perry, Lowe informs Comrie that if he wants the trade to go through, he'll need to repay the signing bonus that the Oilers paid him. After a week of Comrie refusing, and the trade being held up, Burke tells Lowe to forget about the deal, and in the end Comrie is dealt to the Flyers for a package that doesn't go on to score almost 90e0 points.

 

Lowe begins big game hunting, spending his summers chasing around Dany Heatley, signing Thomas Vanek, and then finally Dustin Penner to an RFA contract. With the Penner contract, Lowe burns his bridges with other GMs in the league, forcing the Oilers to promote him, bringing in Steve Tambellini, who continues the systematic bleeding of talent. Experienced NHLers are rapidly moved out from the organization for draft picks who are immediately thrust into starting roles, and the Oilers quickly fall into picking #1.

 

2010 - Edmonton drafts Taylor Hall #1

2011 - Edmonton drafts Ryan Nugent-Hopkins #1

Hall is an impact player, but not the kind of player who can turn around a franchise. Nugent-Hopkins is a scrawny kid whom the Oilers insist on playing as an immediate #1 centre. He begins his going full-time against guys quality centres who outweigh him by 50 lbs or more, and he spends the first 5 years of his career injured more than a bit of the time, until he gets his man strength.

2012 - Oilers scouts are so disinterested in Nail Yakupov that they don't even interview him, but are forced to select him when the team owner, about an hour before the draft, tells them that if they want to have jobs, they'd better take him. Yakupov is the Nuke Laloosh of hockey: million dollar skills, but a ten cent head. Completely resistant to coaching, refuses to work on areas the club tells him he needs improving on, instead spending his summers shooting pucks. An outsider's view of how frustrating Nail Yakupov is: when Brian Burke talked to him before the draft, his attitude was so bad, one of Burke's scouts had to be physically restrained from attacking him.

 

2013 - Edmonton is making honest attempts to turn around and win, firing Tambellini and bringing in Craig MacTavish. The performance by Lowe and MacT during the opening press conference was so bad that Lowe is permanently barred by ownership from making further appearances on camera. MacTavish was no better, starting it off by saying that he was going to get rid of Ales Hemsky for whatever he could get for him, and by saying that he had little confidence in Devan Dubnyk. MacT hires Ralph Krueger as head coach, who did a fair job. At the end of the season, he sends Krueger on vacation in Europe, telling him that he'll hire a new assistant for him. That process culminates with MacT hiring Dallas Eakins as head coach and MacT firing Krueger via a Skype call.

 

2014 - MacTavish flies to Sweden and then drives 4 hours to scout a kid who plays in Finland, but does pick Leon Draisaitl 3rd overall. MacTavish drives to Dallas Eakins on Christmas Eve and informs him he's fired. Eakins bad luck continues a week later, when he finds out that he and his wife have lost all of their savings in a Ponzi scheme. MacTavish spends the season telling press that upcoming UFA Jeff Petry wants too much money for what he brings, and then a week before the trade deadline states that he can't figure out why Petry has refused to sign the Oilers offer. He's moved for picks a week later. The Oilers finish 3rd last, but win the draft lottery. MacTavish publicly talks about how exciting it would be to draft a player like Connor MDavid. Oilers owner, Daryl Katz, one of his best friends for 30 years, fires him a week later.

 

2015 thru 2019 - Katz knows that McDavid is too important to mess up, so he hires Peter Chiarelli, whom the Bruins have just fired for mangling their salary cap situation. This hiring costs the Oilers a 2nd round pick. Within a week of being hired, Chiarelli trades the #16 (Matthew Barzal) for Griffin Reinhart, already floundering in the Islanders farm system. He plays 29 games in Edmonton. In short order, Chiarellis signs Andrej Sekera to a contract which will soon be bought out. He traded Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome, and then Strome for the softest player in NHL history, Ryan Spooner, who plays only 25 games for the club. He traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson, and went on to watch Hall win a Hart Trophy. He traded the badly miscast Justin Schultz for a 3rd pick. Schultz goes on to play key minutes on two Cup winners with the Pens. Chiarelli runs a parade of players through the bottom-6, trying to get some help for McDavid, Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins, and nothing works. Finally, the day before he's fired, he signs Mikko Koskinen to a $4.5M deal.

 

2020 thru today - Ken Holland takes over as GM. It's a mixed bag. He has improved the forward depth tremendously, but has also made unforced errors: bringing in Duncan Keith cost a lot, and while he hasn't bad, he hasn't provided almost $6M in value that his cap space costs. He tried to sign Markstrom to a free agent deal, but he went to Calgary instead, and the Oilers wound up with with the extremely inconsistent Koskinen and oft-injured Mike Smith as their tandem.

 

Like I said, I know this was off-topic... Just had to get it off my chest. You can flip a switch and lose really easily.

Winning? Not so much.

 

[pilldoc]

6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Losing on purpose is really easy to do, but getting back to winning after that is a lot harder.

 

 

This is off-topic from the Flyers, but I present it as both a warning and an act of self flagallation.

 

In fairness... The 1st overalls were over a 6-year period, with the 6th one coming out of left field. It's a miserable record, but not a decade of earnestly trying to get the #1. There have been several distinct eras of Oilers hockey, as I see it:

 

1984 thru 1990, Dynasty - plus 1991 and '92, where the fumes of that group went to 2 Conference Finals.

1993 thru 1996 - complete rebuild after the fire sale.

1997 thru 2006 - Glen Sather as GM thru 1999, Kevin Lowe the rest of the way) plucky teams which fought and scrapped for every win through astonishingly lean financial times. There were a number of years where they had so little money that they didn't even have a farm system, and were lending out players to other team's AHL affiliates. They had tremendous difficulty developing players due to these constraints, and those they could develop would be traded when they reached their prime because they couldn't afford to keep them. I dare anybody to consistently develop players and contend like that, but everybody laughed at their ineptitude all the same. They made playoffs 9 times in 11 years, culminating in a 7-game Stanley Cup loss to Carolina. Haha...

 

Here's where they lose the plot

 

2007 thru - After losing in the Finals, Lowe loses much of the core of the team due to circumstances beyond his control, but having been so close to winning, he thinks that a move or two will get them there again. He gets into a contract fight with Ryan Smyth over $150,000. Smyth is moved for pennies on the dollar, and the Oilers go from playoff contention to a distant bell. When Mike Comrie tells Lowe that he wants to be moved, Lowe is incensed, but agrees. After getting Brian Burkey to agree to a straight-up trade of Comrie for Corey Perry, Lowe informs Comrie that if he wants the trade to go through, he'll need to repay the signing bonus that the Oilers paid him. After a week of Comrie refusing, and the trade being held up, Burke tells Lowe to forget about the deal, and in the end Comrie is dealt to the Flyers for a package that doesn't go on to score almost 90e0 points.

 

Lowe begins big game hunting, spending his summers chasing around Dany Heatley, signing Thomas Vanek, and then finally Dustin Penner to an RFA contract. With the Penner contract, Lowe burns his bridges with other GMs in the league, forcing the Oilers to promote him, bringing in Steve Tambellini, who continues the systematic bleeding of talent. Experienced NHLers are rapidly moved out from the organization for draft picks who are immediately thrust into starting roles, and the Oilers quickly fall into picking #1.

 

2010 - Edmonton drafts Taylor Hall #1

2011 - Edmonton drafts Ryan Nugent-Hopkins #1

Hall is an impact player, but not the kind of player who can turn around a franchise. Nugent-Hopkins is a scrawny kid whom the Oilers insist on playing as an immediate #1 centre. He begins his going full-time against guys quality centres who outweigh him by 50 lbs or more, and he spends the first 5 years of his career injured more than a bit of the time, until he gets his man strength.

2012 - Oilers scouts are so disinterested in Nail Yakupov that they don't even interview him, but are forced to select him when the team owner, about an hour before the draft, tells them that if they want to have jobs, they'd better take him. Yakupov is the Nuke Laloosh of hockey: million dollar skills, but a ten cent head. Completely resistant to coaching, refuses to work on areas the club tells him he needs improving on, instead spending his summers shooting pucks. An outsider's view of how frustrating Nail Yakupov is: when Brian Burke talked to him before the draft, his attitude was so bad, one of Burke's scouts had to be physically restrained from attacking him.

 

2013 - Edmonton is making honest attempts to turn around and win, firing Tambellini and bringing in Craig MacTavish. The performance by Lowe and MacT during the opening press conference was so bad that Lowe is permanently barred by ownership from making further appearances on camera. MacTavish was no better, starting it off by saying that he was going to get rid of Ales Hemsky for whatever he could get for him, and by saying that he had little confidence in Devan Dubnyk. MacT hires Ralph Krueger as head coach, who did a fair job. At the end of the season, he sends Krueger on vacation in Europe, telling him that he'll hire a new assistant for him. That process culminates with MacT hiring Dallas Eakins as head coach and MacT firing Krueger via a Skype call.

 

2014 - MacTavish flies to Sweden and then drives 4 hours to scout a kid who plays in Finland, but does pick Leon Draisaitl 3rd overall. MacTavish drives to Dallas Eakins on Christmas Eve and informs him he's fired. Eakins bad luck continues a week later, when he finds out that he and his wife have lost all of their savings in a Ponzi scheme. MacTavish spends the season telling press that upcoming UFA Jeff Petry wants too much money for what he brings, and then a week before the trade deadline states that he can't figure out why Petry has refused to sign the Oilers offer. He's moved for picks a week later. The Oilers finish 3rd last, but win the draft lottery. MacTavish publicly talks about how exciting it would be to draft a player like Connor MDavid. Oilers owner, Daryl Katz, one of his best friends for 30 years, fires him a week later.

 

2015 thru 2019 - Katz knows that McDavid is too important to mess up, so he hires Peter Chiarelli, whom the Bruins have just fired for mangling their salary cap situation. This hiring costs the Oilers a 2nd round pick. Within a week of being hired, Chiarelli trades the #16 (Matthew Barzal) for Griffin Reinhart, already floundering in the Islanders farm system. He plays 29 games in Edmonton. In short order, Chiarellis signs Andrej Sekera to a contract which will soon be bought out. He traded Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome, and then Strome for the softest player in NHL history, Ryan Spooner, who plays only 25 games for the club. He traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson, and went on to watch Hall win a Hart Trophy. He traded the badly miscast Justin Schultz for a 3rd pick. Schultz goes on to play key minutes on two Cup winners with the Pens. Chiarelli runs a parade of players through the bottom-6, trying to get some help for McDavid, Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins, and nothing works. Finally, the day before he's fired, he signs Mikko Koskinen to a $4.5M deal.

 

2020 thru today - Ken Holland takes over as GM. It's a mixed bag. He has improved the forward depth tremendously, but has also made unforced errors: bringing in Duncan Keith cost a lot, and while he hasn't bad, he hasn't provided almost $6M in value that his cap space costs. He tried to sign Markstrom to a free agent deal, but he went to Calgary instead, and the Oilers wound up with with the extremely inconsistent Koskinen and oft-injured Mike Smith as their tandem.

 

Like I said, I know this was off-topic... Just had to get it off my chest. You can flip a switch and lose really easily.

Winning? Not so much.

 

 

Appreciate the history lesson as most of us forgot about all the turmoil Oil management has caused ......

[RonJeremy]

6 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Inside I know this right, but I was still hoping. 

Considering the team will be slightly better next year but definitely no playoffs, we may as well keep JVR around and not give up any assets, hopefully we can unload him at the deadline with no cost. I just hope Schmuck doesn't go and sign some older, diminishing UFA like Godreau or Forsberg. Save the cap $$ for the next 2 off seasons when there are much better UFAs available, like Horvat, Pastranak, McKinnon and Marner. If we have a competitive team at this point maybe we can sign one of these guys in 2023 or 2024.

[mojo1917]

@JR Ewing

Thanks for the tale of caution, some amazing things needed to happen to stay bad for that long. 

I fear the Flyers are in the middle of their ineptitude and not coming up for air.

 

this story is amazing to me

7 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

2012 - Oilers scouts are so disinterested in Nail Yakupov that they don't even interview him, but are forced to select him when the team owner, about an hour before the draft, tells them that if they want to have jobs, they'd better take him. Yakupov is the Nuke Laloosh of hockey: million dollar skills, but a ten cent head. Completely resistant to coaching, refuses to work on areas the club tells him he needs improving on, instead spending his summers shooting pucks. An outsider's view of how frustrating Nail Yakupov is: when Brian Burke talked to him before the draft, his attitude was so bad, one of Burke's scouts had to be physically restrained from attacking him.

 

As is this one.

7 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

2014 - MacTavish flies to Sweden and then drives 4 hours to scout a kid who plays in Finland, but does pick Leon Draisaitl 3rd overall. MacTavish drives to Dallas Eakins on Christmas Eve and informs him he's fired. Eakins bad luck continues a week later, when he finds out that he and his wife have lost all of their savings in a Ponzi scheme. MacTavish spends the season telling press that upcoming UFA Jeff Petry wants too much money for what he brings, and then a week before the trade deadline states that he can't figure out why Petry has refused to sign the Oilers offer. He's moved for picks a week later. The Oilers finish 3rd last, but win the draft lottery. MacTavish publicly talks about how exciting it would be to draft a player like Connor MDavid. Oilers owner, Daryl Katz, one of his best friends for 30 years, fires him a week later.

 

Our failures aren't nearly as colorful.

[JR Ewing]

3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Appreciate the history lesson as most of us forgot about all the turmoil Oil management has caused ......

 

The worst part is that I just went with the highlights. I didn't talk about how they signed Sheldon Souray, knowing he was injured and in month 3 of a 6-month rehab program. They insisted he play, whereupon he injured himself even worse, and didn't talk to him or ask how he was doing for half a year. When Souray was asked by the media how he was doing, he said he wasn't even sure that the team sees him as an Oiler anymore, since they hadn't even called to ask how he's doing.

 

Well, that was it. "We can't have this kind of cancer on the team." So, they spent millions of dollars getting Souray to play for other team's AHL clubs. Amusingly enough, at the same time, Tambellini publicly talked about how the club could really use a big defenseman who could shoot the puck.

 

I could go on and on and on, but this is a Flyers forum. I apologize.

 

[mojo1917]

@JR Ewing

no apology necessary, that was a fascinating history to read.

[SCFlyguy]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

So you're saying he is a difference maker then?

Yes, without him, this team is going nowhere.

 

If he were playing, they might even be 26th or even 25th in the league, which would really be something.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

The worst part is that I just went with the highlights. I didn't talk about how they signed Sheldon Souray, knowing he was injured and in month 3 of a 6-month rehab program. They insisted he play, whereupon he injured himself even worse, and didn't talk to him or ask how he was doing for half a year. When Souray was asked by the media how he was doing, he said he wasn't even sure that the team sees him as an Oiler anymore, since they hadn't even called to ask how he's doing.

 

Well, that was it. "We can't have this kind of cancer on the team." So, they spent millions of dollars getting Souray to play for other team's AHL clubs. Amusingly enough, at the same time, Tambellini publicly talked about how the club could really use a big defenseman who could shoot the puck.

 

I could go on and on and on, but this is a Flyers forum. I apologize.

 

 

No you're fine. This is like therapy.

 

Sadly at your expense it makes me feel slightly better about the Flyers situation.

 

Doesn't change the fact I don't know how the Flyers get out this mess.

 

But shows us it could always be worse.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

The worst part is that I just went with the highlights. I didn't talk about how they signed Sheldon Souray, knowing he was injured and in month 3 of a 6-month rehab program. They insisted he play, whereupon he injured himself even worse, and didn't talk to him or ask how he was doing for half a year. When Souray was asked by the media how he was doing, he said he wasn't even sure that the team sees him as an Oiler anymore, since they hadn't even called to ask how he's doing.

 

Well, that was it. "We can't have this kind of cancer on the team." So, they spent millions of dollars getting Souray to play for other team's AHL clubs. Amusingly enough, at the same time, Tambellini publicly talked about how the club could really use a big defenseman who could shoot the puck.

 

I could go on and on and on, but this is a Flyers forum. I apologize.

 

 

 It's fine...we're basically reliving what you went through.

 

 Signing a guy who publicly states he wouldn't play for you unless you overpaid him...so you do. Then you bring in all his buddies. Signing or trading for guys solely because they're from the state that previously fired you. Bringing in the worst defenceman in the league so he can get a title for players who are allergic to contact, and continually playing him even though it's clear he doesn't belong in the league. Trading a slew of picks and players to bring in a defenceman a blind person could see wasn't very good. Then extending him. I know this isn't as long but Chucks only been here 3 years...there's plenty more if you add Homer and Clarke. 

 

 At least you can watch McDavid and Draisaitl.

[Howie58]

5 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

So what is this group after with our once beloved Flyers? 

I am in the BI TFU camp, have been for 6 years. IMHO, healthy Couts and Ellis and Giroux resigning is still a bubble maybe playoff team with zero chance of advancing to a conference final. The prospect cupboard is barren of top 6 top pairing guys. 

Is this what Flyers fans want? If that's what you want, Chuck can surely deliver. Me personally, no thanks. 

What is the end goal? I ask with all due respect, we are all frazzled by the turn of events, I hope we can have a healthy debate without name calling . 

I agree that without a revamp, this is a marginal club.  As for Ellis, I think we have another Rathje on our hands.  I give it 50/50 he plays again in a Flyers uniform.  

 

Fletcher is not that bad or good.  I would say he had a sub-par deck of cards to play with.  Other than goal, our development has been lousy.  

[flyercanuck]

23 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

  Other than goal, our development has been lousy.  

 

 It's either drafting or development or both. But Konecny and Provorov have taken huge steps backwards. 

 

 I think Fletch is terrible at trades and salary cap. His FA signings aren't much better. His drafting is still a work in progress, but the way he throws picks around tells me he doesn't think it's that important. Of course all this is on the 3 headed monster. He's made some questionable decisions (passing on Krebs/Newhook/Caufield...though York does look good) and throwing away a 1st on Risto but also made a nice move on Brink. Foerster looks like a good pick for a late 1st and Wisdom, Desnoyers and Andrea have potential. 

[GrittyForever]

10 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Considering the team will be slightly better next year but definitely no playoffs, we may as well keep JVR around and not give up any assets, hopefully we can unload him at the deadline with no cost. I just hope Schmuck doesn't go and sign some older, diminishing UFA like Godreau or Forsberg. Save the cap $$ for the next 2 off seasons when there are much better UFAs available, like Horvat, Pastranak, McKinnon and Marner. If we have a competitive team at this point maybe we can sign one of these guys in 2023 or 2024.

I see the Laughs trading Marner this off season after another disappointing first round exit and that team extending him. Pasta and McKinnon I doubt go anywhere, Horvat maybe. Depends if they fix their cap or not in other ways. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

UFA like Godreau

 

Oh I can for sure seeing them going hard after him in fact he will be the most successful friend is has who will actually be available guy is 28 and on his way too his 2nd best ever season if not pass his best a 99 point season.

 

So yeah Johnny has been rumored for years now in a trade can see them NOT taking a run at him if he comes available.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Oh I can for sure seeing them going hard after him in fact he will be the most successful friend is has who will actually be available guy is 28 and on his way too his 2nd best ever season if not pass his best a 99 point season.

 

So yeah Johnny has been rumored for years now in a trade can see them NOT taking a run at him if he comes available.

 

 He's exactly what I see them throwing Girouxs money at...he's at his peak and about to start his fall, 19 point career playoff man, we can pay him for what he did in Calgary, he'll still be good while the Flyers suck so he can help us back to mediocrity and more mid round picks. Then he'll be totally overpaid and untradeable the last few years cause his cap hit is ridiculous. And we'll all STILL be talking about why we sign guys to these stupid contracts.

 

But THIS time it'll be different. Ya...let's keep telling ourselves that. 

[OccamsRazor]

50 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 He's exactly what I see them throwing Girouxs money at...he's at his peak and about to start his fall, 19 point career playoff man, we can pay him for what he did in Calgary, he'll still be good while the Flyers suck so he can help us back to mediocrity and more mid round picks. Then he'll be totally overpaid and untradeable the last few years cause his cap hit is ridiculous. And we'll all STILL be talking about why we sign guys to these stupid contracts.

 

But THIS time it'll be different. Ya...let's keep telling ourselves that. 

 

I actually blame the Kings and Ron Hextall.

 

Why you say?

 

Because I think Ron used them (Kings) winning their first Cup as the lure to hire him and maybe even used to sell his idea.

 

It all started with saying they laid the foundation through a few good drafts and then it put them over the edge with a few acquisitions through various trades the biggest thanks to Homer himself (Richie and Crater) and then hooked him with the magic words "All it took was us sneaking in as an 8th seed" and Homer has never looked back...

 

...hence the reason I think he feels all they have to do is get in and that could be the Flyer's fate as well.