radoran Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 14 hours ago, FD19372 said: If Bunnaman doesn't stay a Phantom, maybe this guy will be tried next... Mats Sundin is retired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah another great Hextall pick shining through... You were expecting great things from a 4th round, 109 overall pick? Put your analyst on danger money, baby... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Bunnaman clears waivers... What? Nobody wanted him? How can that be? Edited February 20, 2022 by CoachX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 52 minutes ago, radoran said: You were expecting great things from a 4th round, 109 overall pick? If somebody said he'd have the same career points as the 5th overall pick, I'd have to call them crazy. He does. Also has more points than 3 other 1st rounders (including, of course the Flyers). More than about half the 2nd rounders. More than all but 4 3rd round picks that year. A great pick? No. And here's a list of all the great players taken after him... This list ends here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 59 minutes ago, radoran said: You were expecting great things from a 4th round, 109 overall pick? Put your analyst on danger money, baby... Well I just listened to the folks who claimed him to be such a great drafter of talent and well we're all still waiting on it to come to the surface on anything. We should just grade on a curve since looking at the guys who are suppose to be developing this talent it seems to not actually know how to actually do that. So I hold out hope it is just the fcuked up teachers fault and not the students... ...hard to not notice guys doing well to start and the more they play the worse they seem to be heading like TK, Ivan, Sanheim and Hart to name a few. Will it ever change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, CoachX said: What? Nobody wanted him? How can that be? Flyers have tainted him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well I just listened to the folks who claimed him to be such a great drafter of talent and well we're all still waiting on it to come to the surface on anything. Picking a winger who scores 24 goals in each of Y2, 3, and 4 isn't exactly nothing. He hasn't been here overseeing the devolution of Provorov. Carter Hart isn't "bad." There are many Hextall picks that have had impacts with several still bubbling up in the system. Edited February 20, 2022 by radoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, radoran said: Picking a winger who scores 24 goals in each of Y2, 3, and 4 isn't exactly nothing. He hasn't been here overseeing the devolution of Provorov. Carter Hart isn't "bad." There are many Hextall picks that have had impacts with several still bubbling up in the system. That is what I am saying it seems they are ruining them. Really taking some real good talent and just ruining and driving them into the ground and destroying every ounce of confidence they had in themselves. So bad to where they are going to need some major therapy once rhey leave this club. It won't end till they cut the head of the snake off... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well I just listened to the folks who claimed him to be such a great drafter of talent and well we're all still waiting on it to come to the surface on anything. I think a lot of people (me included) liked the idea that he actually, for a change, took the draft seriously. He was GM for only 5 seasons, yet had multiple 1st round picks 3 times. Not counting his 1st draft where he was stuck with what Homer left him, he averaged 9 picks per draft. Some of those players are still up and coming. Fletcher averages 6 picks per draft. And where Hextall was good at having 2-1st round picks per draft, Fletcher has had 2....period. In 3 years. And for Fletch's trading away of draft picks for winning now, we're currently finishing lower than any of Hextalls teams...even though Hex spent most of his tenure rebuilding a depleted prospect pool and getting rid of terrible contracts. No he wasn't great. He just looked great compared to what we have now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I think a lot of people (me included) liked the idea that he actually, for a change, took the draft seriously. He was GM for only 5 seasons, yet had multiple 1st round picks 3 times. Not counting his 1st draft where he was stuck with what Homer left him, he averaged 9 picks per draft. Some of those players are still up and coming. Fletcher averages 6 picks per draft. And where Hextall was good at having 2-1st round picks per draft, Fletcher has had 2....period. In 3 years. And for Fletch's trading away of draft picks for winning now, we're currently finishing lower than any of Hextalls teams...even though Hex spent most of his tenure rebuilding a depleted prospect pool and getting rid of terrible contracts. No he wasn't great. He just looked great compared to what we have now. So we are still waiting for a stud to emerge and the ones I mentioned looked on their way Ivan, Sanheim, TK, Farabee and Hart but as I said it is hard to judge they looked so well to start but have slid in the wrong direction since the Isles playoff bounce. And it seems it won't ever break the cycle. As we have all mostly agreed it won't change till someone cuts the head of the snake off... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: And for Fletch's trading away of draft picks for winning now, we're currently finishing lower than any of Hextalls teams. And since other have made the excuse Hextall was forced by management to sign JVR (of which I have never seen any proof of) then I have to think Chuckles is being forced to make these moves just the same because he is instructed to by his bosses. I mean so far I think Chuckles has done some decent drafting I mean sure we can't tell yet but on paper looks solid. York Brink Attard Foerster Andrea Wisdom Desnoyers Tuomaala Kolosov Looks like they will be some very solid talent once they arrive. Now he just needs to work on his free agency moves. But what is the point of finding talent if you don't have anyone who can grow it... ...that is the while point of planting the seeds to eventually have the seedlings to be able to sprout into good solid trees for years to come.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: of which I have never seen any proof of I'm not at all saying the Homer & Co. were saying "you must sign JVR" but the mandate to "make the playoffs" has always been there and JVR - like it or not - was the #2 best UFA that year. Because Tavares wouldn't come here. #bulletdodged? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And since other have made the excuse Hextall was forced by management to sign JVR (of which I have never seen any proof of) then I have to think Chuckles is being forced to make these moves just the same because he is instructed to by his bosses. My reasoning that Hextall was forced to sign JVR (and no, I've never seen any actual proof) is that he is soooo NOT a Hextall type of player. And the fact that Hextall had, so far, been getting rid of contracts just like that one. Chuckles on the other hand, well let's just say several of us were pretty concerned he was going to come in and do some Hayes-like signings. And he did. 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I mean so far I think Chuckles has done some decent drafting I mean sure we can't tell yet but on paper looks solid. York Brink Attard Foerster Andrea Wisdom Desnoyers Tuomaala Kolosov Looks like they will be some very solid talent once they arrive. I won't knock his drafts, other than I so wanted him to grab Krebs when he fell into our lap, and also wanted Newhook. But York so far looks fine. Everyone else that hasn't been decimated by injury has come along. I will knock his going back to the old ways of throwing away draft picks for useless players. 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Now he just needs to work on his free agency moves. I think he's worked on them enough, thanks. 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But what is the point of finding talent if you don't have anyone who can grow it... ...that is the while point of planting the seeds to eventually have the seedlings to be able to sprout into good solid trees for years to come.... Yes. This team has become terrible at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: That is what I am saying it seems they are ruining them. Really taking some real good talent and just ruining and driving them into the ground and destroying every ounce of confidence they had in themselves. So bad to where they are going to need some major therapy once rhey leave this club. It won't end till they cut the head of the snake off... I need therapy from watching this team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, CoachX said: I need therapy from watching this team My therapy is NOT watching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 5 hours ago, radoran said: Picking a winger who scores 24 goals in each of Y2, 3, and 4 isn't exactly nothing. He hasn't been here overseeing the devolution of Provorov. Carter Hart isn't "bad." There are many Hextall picks that have had impacts with several still bubbling up in the system. and that's the biggest problem with this team, his failed draft picks, everyone wanted them up here and expected to win a cup well here's the reality of what these players are and instead it's not hextall's fault, it's fletchers like why and how? he didnt draft these players, no coach is going to fix them as much im not a big fan of hak but everything went downhill way before fletch came here and his picks are playing great in minn, it started in the 2016 when hextall's picks start playing and everything went downhill after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, tucson83 said: and that's the biggest problem with this team, his failed draft picks, everyone wanted them up here and expected to win a cup well here's the reality of what these players are and instead it's not hextall's fault, it's fletchers like why and how? he didnt draft these players, no coach is going to fix them as much im not a big fan of hak but everything went downhill way before fletch came here and his picks are playing great in minn, it started in the 2016 when hextall's picks start playing and everything went downhill after that. I thought Fletch fixed the D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, tucson83 said: it started in the 2016 Only if you don't count the six years before. What a generally idiotic post. The whole thing. Edited February 20, 2022 by ruxpin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: and that's the biggest problem with this team, his failed draft picks, I've been over this, but the concept of his "failed" picks is overblown. Fan expectations aren't the same as a GMs. Much like Fletcher hasn't been able to see the roster he created over the summer actually take the ice. There are sixteen picks between Rubustov and deBrincat. The entire league passed on him at least once. Only 20/20 hindsight says otherwise. And it's only this year that Thompson has begun to emerge. There is no one else in that draft class any reasonable person would say "should have" been taken. Farabee, Konecny, Provorov, Lindblom, Hart, Sanheim isn't a bad haul for four years of work picking at an average of 17th in the first round. Patrick was a miss that virtually every team would have made, despite the protestations if the guys that fired him. O'Brien, Frost, Allison, and Ivan Radcliff are still possible NHL players. 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: , it started in the 2016 when hextall's picks start playing and everything went downhill after that. I don't get where this comes from. They lost in the second round twice, missed the playoffs, and lost in the first round the four years prior to Hextall. The problem wasn't what Hextall added to the roster, the problem was the faulty foundation laid by Paul Holmgren coupled with the culture accepting mediocrity that existed for years and that firing Hextall reinforced. Did Hextall do everything right? Hell no. Extending Voracek was a tragic mistake (who wasn't a Hextall acquisition). Signing JVR was also egregious, but in line with what the organization* wanted. The problems on the Flyers run deep and they aren't because of Hexy or ol' Fletch. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 7 hours ago, radoran said: I'm not at all saying the Homer & Co. were saying "you must sign JVR" but the mandate to "make the playoffs" has always been there and JVR - like it or not - was the #2 best UFA that year. Because Tavares wouldn't come here. #bulletdodged? The # 2 is a total jinx for the Flyers…JVR #2, Patrick#2, JVR 2nd best FA and Hayes 2nd best FA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 18 hours ago, tucson83 said: and that's the biggest problem with this team, his failed draft picks, everyone wanted them up here and expected to win a cup well here's the reality of what these players are and instead it's not hextall's fault, it's fletchers like why and how? he didnt draft these players, no coach is going to fix them as much im not a big fan of hak but everything went downhill way before fletch came here and his picks are playing great in minn, it started in the 2016 when hextall's picks start playing and everything went downhill after that. Let's say the franchise came out and said, "hey, it's Hextall fault". What difference does it make? He's gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 20 hours ago, tucson83 said: and that's the biggest problem with this team, his failed draft picks, everyone wanted them up here and expected to win a cup well here's the reality of what these players are and instead it's not hextall's fault, it's fletchers like why and how? he didnt draft these players, no coach is going to fix them as much im not a big fan of hak but everything went downhill way before fletch came here and one of his picks are playing great in minn, it started in the 2016 when hextall's picks start playing and everything went downhill after that. FIFY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: FIFY. Wait he drafted Filip Johansson (who is 21 and still in SHL) Eriksson Ek Jordan Greenway Kirill Kaprizov Luke Kunin Alex Tuch Kaapo Kahkonen Matt Dumba Jonas Brodin Mikeal Granlund Jason Zucker Johan Larsson Nick Leddy Darcy Kuemper Erik Haula C'mon man I get it you're biased Hextall gets every excuse under the sun but but yet he didn't draft any Kaprizov star even but Chuckles just gets put on blast every chance yall get. I get it and I'm not the biggest Chuck fan either but he has done ok so far drafting really to soon to even judge. Put down the mug of Hatorade... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Wait he drafted Filip Johansson (who is 21 and still in SHL) Eriksson Ek Jordan Greenway Kirill Kaprizov Luke Kunin Alex Tuch Kaapo Kahkonen Matt Dumba Jonas Brodin Mikeal Granlund Jason Zucker Johan Larsson Nick Leddy Darcy Kuemper Erik Haula C'mon man I get it you're biased Hextall gets every excuse under the sun but but yet he didn't draft any Kaprizov star even but Chuckles just gets put on blast every chance yall get. I get it and I'm not the biggest Chuck fan either but he has done ok so far drafting really to soon to even judge. Put down the mug of Hatorade... So who is "great" other than Kaprizov? There are several good players in there...nothing that jumps out anymore than a Konecny or a Provorov. I wouldn't trade Carter Hart for anyone of them not named Kaprizov. After Kap, their 2nd leading scorer wasn't brought in by Fletcher. Nor their 3rd. Nor their 4th. Their top scoring defenceman wasn't brought in by Fletcher. Their #1 goalie wasn't brought in by Fletcher. What's left is hardly the main reason Minnesota is winning. What's left is basically another mediocre team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: So who is "great" other than Kaprizov? So who has Ron drafted that is "great" he doesn't even have a Kaprizov to even tout? Sure he has a bunch good players he has drafted but no one who is "great" yet. See that is my point Ron get the excuse of drafting Farabee, Frost, Provorov, Sanheim, Hart and Konecny to name a few and gets lauded as some draft guru and I list all the good players Chuckles drafted and then all I get back is who is great other than Kaprizov. So it is a double standard from where I am sitting and Chuck has struggled with free agency I agree but he has done good so far I think with the draft but yet gets no love for it. So all I'd like to be fair is all but I get it you're all jaded and maybe rightfully so but man this is more on Homer and not his yes man. But I give Chuck credit for his drafts so far and even really hard to do that because well most of his kids are in the AHL or lower. Time will tell on the pick soon. But give him some credit... ...and yeah you don't have to reply because I know you never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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