Choice of two defenseman… Jones or Hamilton, who do we want?

[RonJeremy]

8 hours ago, Cheesesteak said:

So, does that count as one of the seasons of the two away from two years away effectively now just one year away from being two years away?  or are they still two years away from being two years away?     asking for a friend 

Once it’s a full season with full camp and exhibition games , then we can officially count it. So since we had two partial seasons ,we are only two years away from glory. How does that sound?

[flyer4ever]

4 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Once it’s a full season with full camp and exhibition games , then we can officially count it. So since we had two partial seasons ,we are only two years away from glory. How does that sound?

Its only been 46 years. Whats another 2!

[flyer4ever]

17 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I like Jones but there are cheaper options available i think that won't blow the roster up.

 

I just can't sign off on assets without an extension first....they don't have time for a rental.

 

I would be ok with a addition of say Savard and Larsson or Savard and Montour.

 

Savard i would be good with a 4-5 year deal. Montour could be had i think with a 3 year deal.

 

But i start there. I know neither are the quality of a Jones maybe but there is no guarantee of of now he would sign in Philly after one season.

 

Provorov - Savard

Sanheim - Montour

Morin - Myers

Braun - Hagg

 

That would be a solid upgrade in my eyes. 

I think there are some decent guys who aren't Jones or Hamilton. I don't think getting older helps, and I still think there is a virus in the room that needs to be dealt with, and I still think there needs to be some snarl in whoever comes in. They were so soft last year, it was embarrassing. Larrson, Ristolainen (yes Mojo, the crazy one in Buffalo) Oleksiak all can skate and don't mind the dirty work. Im certain Carter Hart would welcome any or all of them.

[mojo1917]

23 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

yes Mojo, the crazy one in Buffalo)

thanks for clarifying . 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

21 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

I think there are some decent guys who aren't Jones or Hamilton. I don't think getting older helps, and I still think there is a virus in the room that needs to be dealt with, and I still think there needs to be some snarl in whoever comes in. They were so soft last year, it was embarrassing. Larrson, Ristolainen (yes Mojo, the crazy one in Buffalo) Oleksiak all can skate and don't mind the dirty work. Im certain Carter Hart would welcome any or all of them.

 

I'd have no problems with Montour and Larsson.  Montour looked to be a completely different player after leaving the excrement dump known as Buffalo.  Larsson just seems like a real good sold defenseman who would be a great partner for Sanheim,  which would allow Sanheim to roam a bit offensively. And finally,  a third pairing of Morin and Myers could bring that mean disposition missing from the Flyers blueline.  Now, this would also mean having to get rid of salary (JVR/Voracek/Ghost, etc....) and it also means getting done good deals on contracts for the RFAs in the lineup. That might make Schmuck Felcher's head explode having to do all that thinking..... lol

[mojo1917]

25 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

I think there are some decent guys who aren't Jones or Hamilton.

@OccamsRazor brought up Colton Parayko, I think he would be a nice player to bring in, he's won, he's right handed and good at hockey and he's got a bit of nasty to his game. He also mentioned that there are a lot of guys in St Louis that need signed so, there it a possibility that some picks and prospects might work if they need to clear salary. It depends where the St Louis priorities are. I also like the @BobbyClarkeFan16 idea of Brandon Montour from Buffalo ne Florida. He's UFA and would only cost money.

@ruxpin makes a very valid point when he says a winning pedigree should be included in some of the moves. I like Montour's game and ability he doesn't check the winning box . 

Seeing what the Habs have done by bringing in guys that can still play and have won has helped them immensely. Perry and Tiffoli were really good pick ups for them.

They can still play, have won and provide some toughness . Toronto tried this with Wayne Simmonds whose tread is pretty worn, and hasn't been on winning teams. 

[CoachX]

Are there any defensemen left in the NHL, not named Gustaffson, that we haven't included in a trade/sign possibility?

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Are there any defensemen left in the NHL, not named Gustaffson, that we haven't included in a trade/sign possibility?

 

have we talked about Luke Schenn yet?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

have we talked about Luke Schenn yet?

 

Toronto absolutely ruined him and Philadelphia added on to it. They had him play at such a heavy weight it ruined his skating.  I remember when he could really skate in junior and then he was basically ordered to bulk up to a ridiculous size because he was going to be a physical eraser/shutdown defenseman. Poor guy. He never stood a chance with Burke and Holmgren being the dinosaurs they were with their "ARGH SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIZE" mentality. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyer4ever said:

I don't think getting older helps

 

You can't look at it as just getting older you need some vets to show the kids the right way. And by that i mean new ones i don't think the ones they have are good ones. So find the right ones.

 

For example the Bolts have 11 players 30 or older. Sure they have some kids who were home grown but you can supplement with some guys who still have a role.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You can't look at it as just getting older you need some vets to show the kids the right way. And by that i mean new ones i don't think the ones they have are good ones. So find the right ones.

 

For example the Bolts have 11 players 30 or older. Sure they have some kids who were home grown but you can supplement with some guys who still have a role.

 

 

 

It's imperative though that any acquisition of experience MUST include skill and ability. The fact that Braun takes a spot in the lineup, even though he offers nothing more than squished dog **** in the middle of the road, is a great example of that. 

 

I do like the idea of Parayko and if St Louis is indeed cash strapped,  maybe they'll take less on the dollar to ensure they're getting something decent, like say a 3rd and a prospect like Attard this year and a 2nd next year. 

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

It's imperative though that any acquisition of experience MUST include skill and ability.

 

Absolutely they have zero room for dead weight. ZERO.

 

9 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I do like the idea of Parayko and if St Louis is indeed cash strapped

 

They have Faulk and Krug on the books for the 5 years at 6.5 mill per a piece. Both require protection to with NTCs. Scandella requires protection as well with a NTC. So that is their 3 D men right there.

 

They have 3 forwards with NTCs.  Tarasenko, Schenn and Perron. So that is 6 players right there.

 

Blues could then trade Scandella bore the expansion draft since he has a MNTC gets to name 7 teams he won't go too. It could be worked out if Chuckles does his homework.

 

I'm sure they will protect O'reilly and Binnington so 8 players.

 

I would even offer Phil Myers to take Parakyo off their hands and the Flyers could protect him with Ivan and Sanheim. Plus Myers gives them some cap relief at only 2.5 mill for the next two years.

[mojo1917]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would even offer Phil Myers to take Parakyo off their hands and the Flyers could protect him with Ivan and Sanheim. Plus Myers gives them some cap relief at only 2.5 mill for the next two years

This is a hockey trade that would make sense for a team looking to shed salary, Myers struggled last year but he's far from finished growing in the NHL. He has skating and size that can't be taught...Paryako would be an immediate upgrade though. I think some picks or a prospect would need to go St Louis' way, also the Flyers would need to have JvR and/or Jake playing somewhere else.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Flyers would need to have JvR and/or Jake playing somewhere else.

 

Yes i am hoping the Kraken take JVR, Jake or even Ghost in this matter.

 

They have about 12.2 mill in cap space for 2021-22 as of right now...even if they just took Ghost off their hands that would give them around 16.7 mill and Myers cap hit would take about half of Parayko's.

 

I would throw a draft pick their way maybe a 3rd and their own 2022 7th back. It could be worked out.

 

Or you could go the safer route and offer contracts to Savard and/or Larsson or Montour and keep Myers for the bottom pair and let the Blues figure their own way out their cap mess.

 

Just maintain leverage in the deal is all i want Chuckles to do. Easier said than done.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

47 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Absolutely they have zero room for dead weight. ZERO.

 

 

They have Faulk and Krug on the books for the 5 years at 6.5 mill per a piece. Both require protection to with NTCs. Scandella requires protection as well with a NTC. So that is their 3 D men right there.

 

They have 3 forwards with NTCs.  Tarasenko, Schenn and Perron. So that is 6 players right there.

 

Blues could then trade Scandella bore the expansion draft since he has a MNTC gets to name 7 teams he won't go too. It could be worked out if Chuckles does his homework.

 

I'm sure they will protect O'reilly and Binnington so 8 players.

 

I would even offer Phil Myers to take Parakyo off their hands and the Flyers could protect him with Ivan and Sanheim. Plus Myers gives them some cap relief at only 2.5 mill for the next two years.

 

I'd drive Myers to the airport for Parayko. Of course, St Louis would have to move someone else to acquire Myers. But yeah, Parayko would certainly look good in orange and black

[tucson83]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You can't look at it as just getting older you need some vets to show the kids the right way. And by that i mean new ones i don't think the ones they have are good ones. So find the right ones.

 

For example the Bolts have 11 players 30 or older. Sure they have some kids who were home grown but you can supplement with some guys who still have a role.

 

 

yes, especially if the organization wants to win now, they are not going to add more kids, that's taking steps back. heck i know when fletch didnt add any vets to this roster last offseason, i knew this team was taking a step back because you wont get compete by adding more youth because it's learning a curve and they can hit walls, that's not what we need right now. even if we dont get the big time players, we need to add vets around this team. heck sean courturier even said this team that we need more experience, he's not dumb. it's the prospect obsessed fans that dont get it and biased against vets because they think you can win by just adding more youth which is impossible and dont even make an example of what teams have actually done this and won cups.

 

i mean look at toronto when they lost their two big vets in jt and muzzin that hurt them big time, relying on youth themselves is bad. montreal had all their vets and it's working.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by tucson83

[ruxpin]

18 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

yes, especially if the organization wants to win now, they are not going to add more kids, that's taking steps back. heck i know when fletch didnt add any vets to this roster last offseason, i knew this team was taking a step back because you wont get compete by adding more youth because it's learning a curve and they can hit walls, that's not what we need right now. even if we dont get the big time players, we need to add vets around this team. heck sean courturier even said this team that we need more experience, he's not dumb. it's the prospect obsessed fans that dont get it and biased against vets because they think you can win by just adding more youth which is impossible and dont even make an example of what teams have actually done this and won cups.

 

i mean look at toronto when they lost their two big vets in jt and muzzin that hurt them big time, relying on youth themselves is bad. montreal had all their vets and it's working.

 

 

If only we'd had someone like a Derek Grant or a Nate Thompson.    ooof!

 

Yeah, I'm with you.  I was concerned with the extreme young age of the roster, exacerbated when Nisko suddenly realized he was old.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

12 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If only we'd had someone like a Derek Grant or a Nate Thompson.    ooof!

 

Yeah, I'm with you.  I was concerned with the extreme young age of the roster, exacerbated when Nisko suddenly realized he was old.

 

At some point though, you have to see what you have with your youth and they either step up or sink. The Flyers youth on the d sank.  Part is that is that players weren't ready. The other part is that the development path in Philadelphia is very broken. All that talent and they can't play all of a sudden? No,  there's something wrong in Philadelphia. 

[FD19372]

3 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

At some point though, you have to see what you have with your youth and they either step up or sink. The Flyers youth on the d sank.  Part is that is that players weren't ready. The other part is that the development path in Philadelphia is very broken. All that talent and they can't play all of a sudden? No,  there's something wrong in Philadelphia. 

I'd hate to say it, but so far...and things can change...but from what I've seen of the kids besides Provorov (who really is a veteran now), there isn't anyone in the pipeline capable of being a #1 pairing d-man. They're a bunch of top out at middle to bottom tiering defensemen. They need to add an FA top pairing defenseman.

[CoachX]

8 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

At some point though, you have to see what you have with your youth and they either step up or sink

Flyers new name "Philadelphia TITANIC"

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Provorov (who really is a veteran now), there isn't anyone in the pipeline capable of being a #1 pairing d-man

Hold Up! Just last week someone on here was saying York is a future Norris winner, and Provy was suk

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

3 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I'd hate to say it, but so far...and things can change...but from what I've seen of the kids besides Provorov (who really is a veteran now), there isn't anyone in the pipeline capable of being a #1 pairing d-man. They're a bunch of top out at middle to bottom tiering defensemen. They need to add an FA top pairing defenseman.

 

York and Zamula give me a degree of hope.  The fact that Sanheim,  Provorov or Ghost didn't emerge is a real black mark on the organization as to how they develop defensemen.  I also wonder if maybe Provorov played too much because of the lack of depth.  I'll say it right now - Hextall was an excellent drafter, but he knew **** about development. Not having a quality veteran in the d really harmed and stunted a lot of players.

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

Hold Up! Just last week someone on here was saying York is a future Norris winner, and Provy was suk

Hold up! That wasn't me.

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

The fact that Sanheim,  Provorov or Ghost didn't emerge is a real black mark on the organization as to how they develop defensemen.

I think Provorov is the ONE d-man they have who is capable of being a career #1. the problem is, I'm not sure if he's a player capable of being what I would define as a "game changer" back there.

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

York and Zamula give me a degree of hope. 

So did Sanheim. My eyes have to see it happen first, than I'll believe it.