Game 50: Flyers at Devils; 4/29/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[mkscrewy]

 

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

 

you have to give fletch a chance, it's only his second season here and the coaching staff as well, it's not fair to them because we are playing alot of young players and no practice time, they need that, lindblom not the same player because of his illness, patrick dealing with his headaches, he's not the same player, losing players that were on this team nisky, thompson, pitlick, grant heck hart could be dealing with an injury we dont know about. it's been a bad year for us. fletch admits his mistakes and he will fix it.

 

we are not the only playoff team that's been affected and taken a step back, look at dallas, chicago, st.louis, jets, bluejackets, montreal. alot of teams that have made the playoffs kept most of their players and they have stayed healthy. it wasnt the case for us, stuff happens we move on to next year.

 

actually i thought this team wasnt going to make the playoffs after that offseason because we lost alot of players and didnt replace them and relyed on inexperience players which i thought was a bad move and with the injuries to current players that were playing well last year, it made it more unlikely. that's why im not panicking because i knew it was going to happen and the leadership has to go so we can get better players for the future as a result of them slowing down.

 

 

 

i'm panicking.

[Cheesesteak]

3 hours ago, murraycraven said:

Mathematically Eliminated #AnytimeAnywhere.

 

There is one personal positive takeaway from this season. After being a fan of this organization for the past 35+ years I no longer really give a sh&t. I am tired of the same thing over and over... and over. Poor starts, low IQ hockey, a nonstop coaching carousel, 3 years from being 3 years away, falling behind quickly, giving up, slow players and everything else that I can't think of at the moment. 

I love this team but until this hockey club gets their heads our of their asses I will just try and be a casual fan. This team needs to stop overvaluing their own players and begin to deliver. It is not one player, one coach or management. It is the entire franchise at this point. 

 

Something is rotten. Chuck has a lot of work to do this off-season. Can he get it right? Maybe but I am not confident. Go Sixers.

 

This team is not worthy of the fans attention. 

there has been only a handful of games worth watching in the past five years 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

. It's not an excuse it's just the way it is.

 

Excuse or not if it wasn't for the previous 8 uninspiring years I think we all could cut them some slack.

 

But after all the coaches they have been through the comments fall on def ears because it just sound like another "the dog ate my homework" bullsh it and well time to call their bluff.

[radoran]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I don't know if you're referring to Couturier's quote but he said something like this, although he began it with "when we're on we're one of the best teams..." I forget the exact words but that was the gist. And I think there's some truth to it.

 

Yes, and that they need to be more consistent. But, isn't that the point? The best teams are consistent about it. That's what makes them the best.

 

Saying essentially that that one shift that time in that period, or even how good they played in the second period of that one game, or even that whole game that they played is an example of how good they can be is rather meaningless if it isn't part of a consistent effort.

 

They have played better at times. They were going really strong up to the world stoppage. They battled to the #1 seed, won a playoff round, battled to three OT wins against the Islanders but... were shut out twice and scored a total of three goals in four losses and laid an Ostrich egg in Game 7.

 

Giroux is 33. Voracek is 31. van Riemsdyk is 31. Hayes is 28. Couturier is 28.

 

At what point can we reasonably expect that they will be "one of best" teams consistently? I'd be happy to extend them the benefit of the doubt if, at some point in the past nine years, they'd earned that benefit.

 

For me, they haven't.

 

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Not just to the virus itself but all the disruption, the zero practice (which I believe has really hurt the younger guys) and the uncertainty surrounding everything this season. It's not an excuse it's just the way it is.

 

I completely agree that this has had an effect on teams and players - don't overlook no camp, either. I have Juuse Saros on my FHL team and he started off the season like dogmeat before turning it around and playing like a top goalie again.

 

It's one reason I expect Hart, for example, to make a recovery. Konecny projects to still be a ~20/50 guy. Farabee has looked good. Allison has potential. Provorov is still a top pair defenceman.

 

But if your money guys aren't consistently your money guys - and they haven't been - you're not going to be one of the top teams.

Edited April 30, 2021 by radoran

[flyer4ever]

38 minutes ago, radoran said:

Giroux is 33. Voracek is 31. van Riemsdyk is 31. Hayes is 28. Couturier is 28.

 

I would trade these guys for picks and retain salary today. It's the only way you are going to get the dog turd taste out of my mouth that this group has created. And sorry, I will give you 80 million reasons why covid is not an excuse. Not caring, not trying, BYE BYE.

Edited April 30, 2021 by radoran

[Howie58]

14 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

would trade these guys for picks and retain salary today. It's the only way you are going to get the dog turd taste out of my mouth that this group has created. And sorry, I will give you 80 million reasons why covid is not an excuse. Not caring, not trying, BYE BYE.

Greetings:

To move forward, one or more of these have to go.  How that happens will be tough given salary.  But I agree with your take.  My only hope RE: Giroux is that if he stays, it is with a shorter contract at lower salary to recognize his diminishing value.  If he doesn't, I say bye.  

[GratefulFlyers]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

Yes, and that they need to be more consistent. But, isn't that the point?

 

Indeed it is...you're right you simply can't call yourself "one of the best teams" if you don't win consistently. I don't think the veterans are kidding themselves, they know they've sucked as a team all year. None of them can answer the obvious "why can't you start a game on time?" or "why only 3 minutes of hard work tonight?" Maybe they're hedging, protecting teammates or coaches from embarrassing revelations but I doubt it. I think they're genuinely befuddled.

 

One thing I find debatable is re: the "money players." I've been happy with Giroux and Voracek's game this year. At times they even "wow-ed" me. And Couturier impressed me long before he scored 30+ for the Flyers. The problem as I see it has more to do with the surrounding cast, although I do agree with the point you've made a few times - that these 3 are not good enough to be the (only) "money players" to take the Flyers to the Cup.

 

But imagine Marner or Buchnevich or any of the speedy scoring demons skating with them. How many great PP feeds and setups would be goals instead of near-misses because TK is still in his funk, Allison is still green or because Hayes and JVR are on one of their many float days? Oh well just imagining...kinda late for those dreams when it comes to our aging veterans. Not too late but almost too late.

 

As to their leadership I don't think fans can comment intelligently. Too many variables and intangibles that fans never see.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

18 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

And another opinion some here won't like and IDGAF.

 

Sam Morin is a better defenseman than Phil Myers.

 

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it...

 

 

 If you're talking about Morins 18 game NHL season, ok sure. A year older, taken 11th overall, he SHOULD be better. So far in his entire NHL career he has ONE point. In his career. 

 Myers cost us nothing at the draft table, has played over 100 games in the NHL at a year and a half younger than Morin and played way better last year. 

I hope both end up contributing to the team. But I'm not writing off Myers to Morin over 1 pandemic season of hockey that an entire team has been horrible at. This season has stunk and has pissed a lot of fans off. But it isn't the entire makeup of anyones career. And so far Myers career has been better. By a lot. This season Morin has been. 

[OccamsRazor]

10 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I've been happy with Giroux and Voracek's game this year.

 

All 10 minutes of it.

 

Sorry I stopped reading after this comment.

 

How in the fcuk can you be happy with Jake's game?

 

Paul Holmgren is this you?

 

9 goals for 8.25 mill.

 

Highway robbery.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

57 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 If you're talking about Morins 18 game NHL season, ok sure. A year older, taken 11th overall, he SHOULD be better. So far in his entire NHL career he has ONE point. In his career. 

 Myers cost us nothing at the draft table, has played over 100 games in the NHL at a year and a half younger than Morin and played way better last year. 

I hope both end up contributing to the team. But I'm not writing off Myers to Morin over 1 pandemic season of hockey that an entire team has been horrible at. This season has stunk and has pissed a lot of fans off. But it isn't the entire makeup of anyones career. And so far Myers career has been better. By a lot. This season Morin has been. 

 

 

IDGAF!!!

 

You seemed to have missed that part.

 

Morin hasn't even played in a long time.

 

All these accolades about Hextall stealing Myers and he can't even play in his own end much less add offense hey he finally scored a goal.

 

And Morin is a stay at home guy he does what he is supposed to do. Play him he'll maybe get better.

 

Myers just is a right Coburn can't get out of his own way.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

IDGAF!!!

 

You seemed to have missed that part.

 

Morin hasn't even played in a long time.

 

All these accolades about Hextall stealing Myers and he can't even play in his own end much less add offense hey he finally scored a goal.

 

And Morin is a stay at home guy he does what he is supposed to do. Play him he'll maybe get better.

 

Myers just is a right Coburn can't get out of his own way.

 

 Well Hextall didn't use an 11th overall on him, so there's that. And he looked pretty damn good less than one year ago.

 

 I blame whatever is going on in that locker room on the regression of a lot of good looking young kids on the Flyers more than I believe they all collectively forgot how to play a game they've been great at all their lives in one short season. 

[OccamsRazor]

26 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Well Hextall didn't use an 11th overall on him

 

I know he used the 17th overall on the other half, leader of the Charmin Twins one Travis Sanheim.

 

Sweet!!!!

 

No worries because by the time he is 31 he should be really getting the hang of it.

 

26 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

And he looked pretty damn good less than one year ago.

 

 

Woah that maybe pushing it sure he looked light years better than he does now but only from here is UP. But there has always been a lot to be desired in his game.

 

Which I was hoping he would show improvement on this year but he went the other direction.

 

29 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I blame whatever is going on in that locker room on the regression of a lot of good looking young kids on the Flyers more than I believe they all collectively forgot how to play a game they've been great at all their lives in one short season. 

 

But in all seriousness what else can we do or pray happened?

[flyercanuck]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

 

But in all seriousness what else can we do or pray happened?

 

 I got nothin'.

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

How in the fcuk can you be happy with Jake's game?

 

[warning: the following may trigger blind hatred, irrational objections and other unhinged protestations]

 

He leads the team with 40pts in 47 games...0.85 PPG. For reference Barzal is at 0.80, Bergeron is 0.88, Couturier 0.92.

 

He's not afraid to carry the puck, make plays...maybe the most underrated skill of forwards who can do it. Hayes can rag it with the best (when he feels like playing) but Voracek has the vision to actually make something out of it. Does he fk it up sometimes? Yes he does. But more often than not he gains time/space for his mates to get into the zone and get a forecheck going.

 

He always (usually?) leads the Flyers in assists. League-wide I guess he's in the top 20. Assists aren't goals but they're the next best thing.

 

I don't love his game because the holes are large - over-passing, too cute when he's high in the zone = turnovers. I like his game and if he'd shoot more he'd have more fans. But he is what he is. I certainly wouldn't give him away for picks though, that would be stupid. He's a valuable point-producer and has great chemistry with Giroux/Couturier. If those 3 are together again next year I won't be upset. "Big Changes" would be probably better though. Start with Hayes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

53 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

He leads the team with 40pts in 47 games...0.85 PPG. For reference Barzal is at 0.80, Bergeron is 0.88, Couturier 0.92

 

Sweet so he is the biggest turd in the toilet we'll put a pin in that. Maybe even a banner to the rafters!!!

 

54 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

He's not afraid to carry the puck

 

Sure how else is he going to skate into the offensive zone and just turn the puck over without even getting a shot on goal.

 

Noted.

 

56 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

But more often than not he gains time/space for his mates to get into the zone and get a forecheck going.

 

We'll just agree to disagree here.

 

57 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

He always (usually?) leads the Flyers in assists. League-wide I guess he's in the top 20. Assists aren't goals but they're the next best thing.

 

I don't love his game because the holes are large - over-passing, too cute when he's high in the zone = turnovers. I like his game and if he'd shoot more he'd have more fans. But he is what he is. I certainly wouldn't give him away for picks though, that would be stupid. He's a valuable point-producer and has great chemistry with Giroux/Couturier. If those 3 are together again next year I won't be upset. "Big Changes" would be probably better though. Start with Hayes.

 

 

All of this I am just to exhausted to even debate it has been beat to death here.

 

 

Please forward your post to the Kraken GM and encourage him to take our best forward off our hands. Please lord.

 

Gosh I will sure miss him.

[GratefulFlyers]

Damn, thought for sure I would’ve changed your mind completely. Lol hey to each his own. I won’t be sorry to see him go but unless Mr. Fletcher is a true wizard I guess ol’ Jake will be driving you guys crazy for a few more years.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Damn, thought for sure I would’ve changed your mind completely. Lol hey to each his own. I won’t be sorry to see him go but unless Mr. Fletcher is a true wizard I guess ol’ Jake will be driving you guys crazy for a few more years.

 

I think you can move him if you pick up some of his salary.

 

Right? I mean all those value things you listed certainly someone would pick him up if the Flyers paid say 2 mill of his caphit every year.

 

Right?

[tucson83]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sweet so he is the biggest turd in the toilet we'll put a pin in that. Maybe even a banner to the rafters!!!

 

 

Sure how else is he going to skate into the offensive zone and just turn the puck over without even getting a shot on goal.

 

Noted.

 

 

We'll just agree to disagree here.

 

 

All of this I am just to exhausted to even debate it has been beat to death here.

 

 

Please forward your post to the Kraken GM and encourage him to take our best forward off our hands. Please lord.

 

Gosh I will sure miss him.

 

and that's the thing, the big money we are paying to these guys is doing the exact the same thing that these younger guys that's making $925,000 and we could have saved at least 72 million in cap space to spend on talent instead of being stuck with these contracts that's preventing this team to improve the roster.

Edited May 1, 2021 by tucson83

[CoachX]

5 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

[warning: the following may trigger blind hatred, irrational objections and other unhinged protestations]

 

He leads the team with 40pts in 47 games...0.85 PPG. For reference Barzal is at 0.80, Bergeron is 0.88, Couturier 0.92.

 

He's not afraid to carry the puck, make plays...maybe the most underrated skill of forwards who can do it. Hayes can rag it with the best (when he feels like playing) but Voracek has the vision to actually make something out of it. Does he fk it up sometimes? Yes he does. But more often than not he gains time/space for his mates to get into the zone and get a forecheck going.

 

He always (usually?) leads the Flyers in assists. League-wide I guess he's in the top 20. Assists aren't goals but they're the next best thing.

 

I don't love his game because the holes are large - over-passing, too cute when he's high in the zone = turnovers. I like his game and if he'd shoot more he'd have more fans. But he is what he is. I certainly wouldn't give him away for picks though, that would be stupid. He's a valuable point-producer and has great chemistry with Giroux/Couturier. If those 3 are together again next year I won't be upset. "Big Changes" would be probably better though. Start with Hayes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hayes aint going anywhere.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Hayes aint going anywhere.

 

Probably not. And you guys think you hate Jake.

[radoran]

22 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

As to their leadership I don't think fans can comment intelligently. Too many variables and intangibles that fans never see.

 

I'll go with this for what happens in a season or part of a season.

 

After nine years I'm less confident we don't know about leadership.

[radoran]

9 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

But he is what he is.

 

One of the top players on a bad team.

[GratefulFlyers]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'll go with this for what happens in a season or part of a season.

 

After nine years I'm less confident we don't know about leadership.

 

Fair enough...I think you're still at just better than even money whether you're right or wrong. But fair enough. Because I agree there are many signs pointing to a dearth of leadership. ... slow starts, inability to hold a lead / close out games, all the goals-against so quickly after scoring. The weak special teams speaks to disorganization. Also, the stats say they're a great FO team but possession time doesn't seem to reflect it when I watch...not all the time but enough.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I think you're still at just better than even money whether you're right or wrong.

 

I play roulette (when rarely at a casino). I'll take just better than even money.

 

I just haven't heard anyone praise this leadership that has experienced other leadership.

 

Aside from coaches blowing smoke up posteriors.

 

But we don't know what's happening in the room.

 

We do know what's happening on the ice.

[tucson83]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I play roulette (when rarely at a casino). I'll take just better than even money.

 

I just haven't heard anyone praise this leadership that has experienced other leadership.

 

Aside from coaches blowing smoke up posteriors.

 

But we don't know what's happening in the room.

 

We do know what's happening on the ice.

 

i think the mistake was when the leadership wasnt showing up during the gordon era, that core should have been blown up because you knew it wasnt the coaching, nothing changed under gordon, usually when a coaching change happens you would see players play harder, they didnt. it's a bad team right now, it needs a major changes or else it will be more of the same next year, no matter what coach comes here, i dont think q would save this team.