Vanflyer

About effing time we took off the kid gloves (on the board). Digity may or may not agree, but f u c k it- my daughter posted twice here in one day and made as much sense. I have my statistics book right here. Lets go bro!! ha ha Peace out Noziz!

Hi Howie- Are we talking goalies or other players? The JVR trade is fine. One "supposed" failure for another "supposed" failure. The Bobrovsky trade is the pisser on the fire for me. I am waiting for @DaGreatGazoo to send me some rum so I can cheer your vintage Merlot.

Agree with all of that. For some reason, Sundin gets sold short for never delivering a cup in Toronto.

@jammer2- There is another thread around here that delved into the whole Lindros HOF thing. That's all I will say on this post.

You raise an excellent point regarding Luke. He is a monster on the hits. 6'2, nearly 230. But Dan McGillis was 6'3 231. Truthfully, I don't mind the trade. JVR was getting whipped too much and Schenn was as well. What I really liked was what Brayden had to say about the call from Luke, their relationship and their drive to push each other. Allot of people poo poo'd on Brayden in October / November. Then they saw him play not perfect, but a Flyer brand of hockey once his injuries were healed. Not to diss JVR, but Schenn played 10x bigger than JVR once he was healthy. He showed skill, vision and tanacity. He needs to work on his defensive game, but there were a few games last year that showed why he was highly coveted. I will beat drum all summer long: Schenn LW- Couturier center. Back to Luke. He is 22 y/o big and sturdy (has missed maybe 10 games in his first 4 seasons). Hits and hits - sometimes too much (think Dan McGillis). In the end, I think the Flyers thought so much of Brayden's character- and his imperfect first year, they wanted to gamble on is brother. I hate that JVR is still in the East, but good luck to him. I think he did everything he could to be a good pro hockey player. We can say he should have played Junior instead of college hockey, but that boat has sailed. I will close with WELCOME LUKE TO BE THE NEW WHIPPING BOY OF THE FLYERS!! HA HA HA HA (sucks, eh). Give the kid a chance, eh?

Which shows did she catch??

@jammer2 I did not put that pairing together. Blame that on that other hippie type. But in all seriousness, you have three guys that play one style (Grossman, Meszarous and Schenn), then you have another three that play a different style (Carle, Cobourn, Timmo). You have to put schenn somewhere to get 16-18 min a night. Truthfully, I would put him next Kimmo. The first time in a long time that Kimmo can play left to right. Let those two play EV 15 minutes. I am not sure what to do about the rest. Carle / Mesz, Grossman / Cobourn? All three pairs I would play 15 minutes EV. They are all capable. The other 15 minutes can be played out by the special team guys. How else can you play it at this point? There is no longer a 1/2 or even a 3/4 on this team, just roll them- like the forward lines. Let the guys that excel at specialty get the extra minutes. If I am Bourdon, my first shift in training camp is to go after Schenn, but he would have to put himself way out of position. I feel bad for him (bourdon)- back to the bus rides for him. We will know everything that the org thinks about him on his next contract signing. Hope you are back on your feet soon!!!

She knows Jack Straw because I can hack at it on the guitar- and one of the few songs that if I sing, the dogs don't howl at the moon (sheep are a totally different conversation). Dark Star? Baby steps my friend. Seriously, that might be a good bed time song (depending on the version). The typing was her. She gagahed in my ear that it was an inkblot and for you to figure out.

Why?? Ryans 6 more goals are going to matter that much? Listen- a 4 for 1 trade has to be for a guy that is a future HOF'er in my opinion. Ryan is very good. He is 25 y/o and is a perinial 30 goal scorer. He will be a UFA in three years. Take Bourdon out and I would do the deal.

Either of those and it is a done deal. Why is everyone so high on Harry Z? Nice skater / energy and all that, but WTF? Matt Read and a 1st and some underling prospect I could see. But Harry Z and a 1st??

I clicked on your link and all I see is a roster list. Please explain why their is a log jam at RW? Why do you insist on putting players on their off wings- on the same line no less (Read / Schenn)? I have more to say, but let us start with those first questions.

While also posting better numbers than Jeckyl or Hyde for 2/3 of the season. Being a blue collar small town kid, he might even flourish very well in Columbus. In the long run, I believe this trade is even. I am a bit shocked that Howson did not want more to make up for the a s s pumping that Homer did to him last summer.

I get it, but let us be honest. Neither Rinaldo or Sestito could wear Downies jock when it comes to hockey skill. Both Rinaldo & Sestito are complete loose cannons with only a tad bid of hockey skill (one can skate better than the other and the other that can't skate has lbs on the one that can). Downie is a loose cannon with quite a bit of hockey skill. To even suggest either would have a regular 3rd line position is a farce. Sestito: 1) 27 NHL games / 147 pims 2) 211 AHL games / 745 pims Rinaldo: 1) 73 NHL games / 292 pims 2) 60 AHL games / 331 pims I can hear the WTF's echoing around the arena everytime either skate to the box- when either are on the third line taking another unecessary penalty. Both players have a time, place and role. I love all three when applied appropriately. A regular third line shift is not appropriately applicable to either player.

Well, I am not feeling your lines either bro. I don't mind one guy playing off wing, but to list THREE guys playing off wing?? Really? Also, the day that Sestito sniffs third line ice minutes with the current make-up of this team on a regular / full time basis will be the day I cut off my right nut. He is what he is and he is not what he is not. What he is not is a third line winger on the Philadelphia Flyers.

Other than Hartnell-Roo, You can pretty much shuffle away. Your points are good- especially with the qualifier regarding the minutes. I have put on a couple of posts that I role the top three for equal EV minutes. What is tough for me is the forth line. How can I put Read down there for scraps when he was a 25ish goal scorer in the league BEFORE hitting the wall in the last quarter of the season? I can't put him with Roo as I believe Roo needs some size on his wings to help him (your point about Simmonds- even though he is a stick and Vorachek is 20 lbs heavier). The problem (a nice problem) is what to do with Read. You are right about Sestito. I have no problem plugging him into the Shelley 4th line slot (though I think he is a bit reckless at times). The fact that we are even having a dialogue on trying to find ice time for better forward players says enough. People will look at what I proposed and scoff a bit (and rightfully so). I DO believe you have to put Couturier on the second line THIS year. We can argue the merits of whether Schenn should be there or third line, but style wise, I like the tandem of Schenn-Couturier regardless of the right. I think they both compliment each other in intangible ways. Truthfully, if you put Simmonds on the top line (which I am not sold on), and Voracek on the second line, I think that second line becomes immediately as lethal as the top - AND more defensively responsible.

I had a tough enough time putting Read down there (thus, the Flyers are not as weak on forwards as we want to say), but to put Sestito on that right side? Why?? Situational games sure, on a regular basis, I need to be convinced on what he brings.

My daughters name is Zhoey and she knows the song Jack Straw. She wanted to reply here: llllllllld vcerawdc79444448a3erfttttttt ''-' ''

Not only did she write that, but she also sent it too!! My wife is watching with me- we are laughing hysterically.

My daughter just turned 6 months and has better words than I to say: qc1\

Doom- I expect better from you. While I think Jagr should be re-signed (I am the minority), Voracek will become the heir (though I am not sold on that combination). For me personally, I go after Shane Doan for a 3 year 12m contract to ride out his career. He plays all game situations, tough as nails, 35 y/o, and plays 19+ minutes a night. He was born to be a Flyer and it would be nice to see him come home to nest. Secondly, Schenn already split his time between center and wing (left). Here is how I see it (sans a FA RW signing): Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek Schenn-Couturier-Briere Wellwood-Talbot-Simmonds Zolniercyk-Read-xxxx? I am just not sure that Voracek is the right skill set to go with Giroux. Doan however is and we shuffle the deck chairs again.

Howdy Polaris- It is one enigma / perceived underperformer for another. Same draft class (JVR #2 / Schenn #5). What we did get a young, stay at home defencemen that is only 22 years old (1/2 year younger than JVR). He LOVES to hit. Has developed in juniors and seldom is injured. The Schenn / JVR trade has been on the block for a long time (more than a year). I personally have always been opposed to it- mostly because Schenn seems like Dan McGillis v.2 to me. Good player, big body, can skate, but always overplays. That said, he is ONLY 22 and has played in 310 nhl games. Allot of people on this board still cry over Sbisa going to Anaheim in the Pronger trade and want him back. Sbisa is a good player, just as Schenn is. But this team does not need another light speedster that has some angst to his game. We need a young stay at home guy that is willing to battle. I think Burkes comments were for once spot on (though exaggerated slightly). He said something to the effect that JVR-despite his size was not a draft horse that would play the ground and pound game. He is a thoroughbred. He is right and wrong. JVR can skate like the wind, has soft hands and a booming slapper. Yet, thus far, the only time he has been effective with all those skills is when he does get mad / or playoffs and plays the ground and pound game (ie., drive to the net, work the corners, win the battles). The Flyer forums say "good luck to JVR under Carlyle", but they are selling Lavy very short and in fact one of the reasons that JVR may be out of town is because of Lavy's perspective. That is not a rumor mill comment, just that Lavy rides the players as hard as anyone in the league and to suggest that JVR is going to coaching pergatory is a joke. I truthfully wish JVR the best of luck. I think he has bad luck year and that again Homer made a move he had to make. He had to get defense for now. Its not a Weber or Suter or anywhere close. But it is a 22y/o kid that has led his team in hitting his entire career. He will play a 2nd or 3rd fiddle here as Grossman and Meszarous are ahead of him on the "stay at home category". That is good. I also like what Brayden had to say in how they push each other- and they are best friends. Make no mistake, Luke Schenn will become the INSTANT whipping boy around town (after breezy of course) if he does not play half way decent. JVR is always linked with the worse season in Flyers history and now Luke Schenn is as well. The flip side is that if JVR can be healthy, I still believe that he can be a significant player for Toronto. By significant, I mean 25-25. That is what his contract represented and is on par with what have paid Hartnell. It kind of adds in the whole "home boy thing". Meaning JVR- while a NY fan, lives very close to Philly. Him going to Toronto will be good. Get away from family and all the friends and just go play hockey. For Luke, he will only get a slight reprieve if he does perform. Yet, I don't think he will be attached to the lofty expectations that JVR was. For me personally, I can not wait until every Carolina / Philly game this year to start my drinking game!! :-P

You are overvauluing him a tad. He is JVR money on the open market. Same draft class, a couple picks down and has performed near the same until the past season. Just saying. :-P I think what the Flyers do is give him a Giroux like bump to 3.5 ish and sign him within the RFA boundaries (3 years for him I believe).

@DaGreatGazoo Frank is lazy for the most part. This article bothers me for three reasons: 1) He does a nice knife throwing job in the back of JVR. Granted, he never fulfilled the expectations for that abysmal season as a #2, but neither has Kyle in Ottawa. Additionally, I dismiss last year as write-off as he was injured for most of it. 2) "With Carle in the fold, the Flyers will ice a deep defensive corps when the puck drops on Oct. 11: Carle, Schenn, Kimmo Timonen, Braydon Coburn, Andrej Meszaros and Nick Grossmann. It was a marked, overnight improvement." Two parts about this that bother me: a) He fails to mention Bourdon (who is a RFA and needs to be signed) or Gustafson on the depth chart. So, a COMPLETE gloss over on depth. B) It is a marked improvement in the sense that we now have another body that can play d. Beyond that, it is an unknown quantity for the Flyers. The best part of Schenns game is that he LOVES to hit and use his body. However, he plays sometimes like Dan McGillis in that regard (taking himself out of the play in order to make the big hit). Frank could not mention that because he has no idea how Schenn plays. 3) The two online sources for cap hit numbers are capgeek.com and nhlnumbers.com. The first has the Flyers at 11.4 m and NHLnumbers at 11.1m- both pre-pronger credit assumption. I tend to go with capgeek. "Assuming restricted free agent Jake Voracek re-signs and his salary bumps to $3 million and Chris Pronger's $4.9 million is moved to the long-term injury list, the Flyers will have approximately $14 million to spend (with a $70.2 million upper limit) on one forward, one defenseman and a backup goaltender." So, lets break this down: 1) 11.4 - 3m (voracek*)= 8.4m 2) 8.4 + 4.9m (pronger LTIR credit) = 13.3m Usually people fall into one of three categories: good with words, good with numbers or live in Pittsburgh (sorry Polaris). We now know that Frank is poor at both and is obviously living in Pittsburgh!! Now we move onto his ability to count players. By rules, NHL teams are allowed carry 23 players on a roster (I won't muddy the water with the pro roster count stuff) and 20 can be dressed a night. Allot of NHL teams carry 22 on the roster until the injury bug hits. So, 20 on the bench, two in the press box / club suite. He actually correct on the roster spots (note- not contracts). There is room for total of 4 more players. Assumming we go with 22, that is 1 forward, 1 d-man, and 1 goalie. That said, most teams break camp with the roster full as an AHL guy with a two-way will get a good look. Our current roster is: 12 Forwards (this includes Jody Shelley) 6 defensmen (not including Bodourn / carle) 1 goalie But, if you are writing an article, you should write in the assumptions like I did (ie. he is assuming the Flyers will only carry 22 on their roster AND he is assumming that Shelley will make the team- which I highly doubt). If you take Shelley out, that is now a maximum of 5 roster spots to be filled and a probability of 4 (2 forwards, 1 d and 1 g). The Zolniercyk / Sestitos of the world will get signed (one way or two way contract does not matter as they are waiver exempt). Bodourn also is waiver exempt, but he is on the bubble. He deserves hard look at camp. Lilja should be put out to pasture at this point (despite his cheap contract). So, lets say Bodourn takes Lilja spot (with a bit more money). Carle is re-signed. There is your 7. It leaves Gustafson for your call-up. A healthy Meszaros / Grossman and an added Schenn to make this D much tougher to play against inside the d-zone as it will be much more Physical. All three players hit and are big men. Meszaros: 6'2, 223 lbs Grossman: 6'3 227 lbs Schenn: 6'2 229 lbs Then you have the liquid guys: Cobourn Timmonen Carle Add in a Bodourn (though his development would be wasted playing 7th fiddle) or a Gustafson and it does look pretty solid. Schenn does not need to play huge minutes here. 16-18m a night would be perfect. After all is said and done, I think our remaining roster spots will be filled with what is currently unsigned as RFA's. The team has tremendous chemistry. Unless a total stud comes along, I don't see much else. On a crap shoot: Forwards Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek Schenn-Couturier-Briere Wellwood-Talbot-Simmonds Zolniercyk-Read-XXXX The first three lines roll same minutes a night on EV (13), the 4th rolls 7. That leaves 14 for special teams. Defense: Top 6: Grossman, Timmonen, Meszarous, Coburn, Schenn, Carle Again, going to role 3 lines at 15 minutes each and 15 minutes for special teams. Lilja is your 7th and Bourdon is your call up in injury situation. In the end, I am okay with that. So, the spending I see is RW, a backup goalie, signing Bourdon and Zoniercyk. I personally think that RW should be Jagr if he will go for 1 more year only at the same money (we have it). So, here is how I break down the money: Current cap availability: 11.4m + pronger credit = 16.3 1) Voracek- 3.5 for 3 years (I am pretty sure he will still be RFA after that). > Balance 12.8m 2) Bourdon (two way)- 1.2M for 3 years > Balance 11.6m 4) Zolniercyk (two way)- 900k for 3 years > Balance 10.7m 5) Jagr- 3M 1 year or 5.4 for two years (or the one player I have coveted for a long time: shane doan, I'd give him three years at 4M). > Balance 7.7m 6) Back-up goalie- 1.2m for two years > Balance 6.5m Net balance: 6.5M Unless a stud deal comes along, I would go with that.

"The Devils will most likely lose Salvador as well." I would love to get Salvador! Who knew he had that kind of game in him?? Flash in the pan in the swan song of his career or just well seasoned??

You mean he is not JVR??