Vanflyer

This is one of the best d-men drafts in the past 10 years. It is stocked with d-men in the top 60. Don't be surprised to see the Flyers take a d-man.

2002- Cam Ward (25th) 2003- MAF (1st) 2004- Cory Schneider (26th) 2005- Carey Price (5th) Should I go on???

Considering Prongers cap hit is under 5m, I am not sure why you would say that.

Agreed, I guess my point was why would Nashville blowup their defense for offense that is not yet proven? They should have moved Suter at the trade deadline. The pooch is screwed on that as he will sign somewhere else. I understand that they were making a playoff run and all that, but they could have had Grossman and others (#1's) from Dallas as an example.

You are the first to take the bait. Nash had 2.2 g/g and 2.1 g/a a game over 11 games. They played 10 games and one was OTL. New Jersey posted 2.46 g/g and 2.42 g/a. That margin is almost identical. The top seven teams had nearly identical margins- with exception to LA.

It's interesting you would comment on that. For Nashville- it is now a mix of cash and assets. They are no longer the over-achieving, well drafting, CASH POOR team that they were. I say interesting because of our dialogue regarding Crosby. I would do Weber / Crosby and sign Suter (nashville side) for 6m straight up. Nashville is desperate for offence. Pitts is desperate for defence. I'll call Shero if you call Poile! :-P

I actually discounted not only the hat trick game, but also the championship game- merely to illustrate a point. It is most definitely statistical manipulation. That manipulation was intended to show that 63% (approx 2/3) of his playoff goals came in two games- with both having an bearing on impact of the game, but neither leading the charge. LA completely dominated the hat trick game (40 shots / 24 and 26 scoring chances to 10). Hat tricks are great, but that was neither a series or tourny changing trick. In the game clincher, LA was again dominating. My overall point is that Carter was / is / always will be a second fiddle guy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. He was not in the top five of a single offensive category in the playoffs. For me, it is not worth the 5m plus he makes.

I haven't done the exact math, but wouldn't it seem extremely odd that the Flyers would do that kind of trade (approximately 8m in current cap hit) for one guy - plus a couple of first rounders? I guess what I am trying to say is that at least of two of those guys would need to be replaced (a 17m a night RW and a prospective 17m a night LW- currently 14M). I can see Wellwood taking JVR's spot at current ability. But I don't see anyone taking Voraceks spot (who I believe is the heir apparrent of #1 RW on the team- whatever line combo that may be). Then you add in Bourdon who is a potential 3/4 guy. Who is going to fill that whole? We need help on d-fense, but not to mortgage the team. I mean I have seen Weber a bit, but he did not carry Nashville to the cup with a stud goalie in net. So why in the world would we think he would be the savior to give up all those assets when we do not have a goalie of the caliber of Renne- and replacements for the assets we would have to give up?? To me, it undoes everything that Homer did last summer.

I really like Wellwood and think he has potential to be a nice 2nd line left wing (center spots are taken for the minutes he would need). Harry Z is a nice energy player. But to me he is reckless. He reminds me a bit of Powe mixed with Cirello.

That is certainly very subjective. The Kings were all over the Devils on that power play. Carter was completely unchecked and standing beside the net. Nice tip, but not as if he made some miraculous effort to make the play. On the second goal in that game, he was COMPLETELY unmarked coming off the bench and glided right in to his normal top inner circle spot and let go his wrister. When on net, that will score allot. He scored and it had relevance on the game. He played well as a second fiddle. That is my point. When he has to be the top fiddle against the opposition top checking line, He does not execute. I did look at some additional number that will muddy the water: 1) Jeff scored in 7 of the 16 wins by LA. So, if you take the 5 goals in two of the wins, that still leaves 8 points in 14 of the others wins (3g and 5a). 2) Jeff was a -3 out of the 4 losses. But to come full circle, we can not disect with numbers. Afterall, Jagr had 8 points in the 11 games for the Flyers. Was he relevant, sure, but not that much. Was Carter relevant, sure, but not that much?

Legible and thanks for the effort. Your first message was kind of a garbled rant with about 10 different points spewed forth. If English your primary language?

Not last year he wasnt. While his win percentage was the highest (54.7%), he was the FIFTH option to take a draw (only took 605) behind Richards (1216 / 49.8%), Giroux (1095 / 50%), Briere (820 / 48.2%), Betts (817 / 50.3%). The year prior to that he was the number two go to (1314 at 52.4%). This year he took 774 at 50.8%. While I do agree that the Flyers need help on the FO, Carters abscence was negligible. Giroux took 1543 at 53.7%. Briere and Couturier split secondary draw assignments (depending on the situation). They tandemed for 1635 draws at 48%. Given that carter has averaged 689 draws over the past two seasons at a rate of 52.75%, the difference with him playing for the Flyers would have been marginal. In fact, lets use couturier and his 804 draws at 47%. Had Carter been the one to take those draws he would have won 424. Couturier won 378. A difference of 46 faceoffs over the season (.56 faceoff wins more a game with Carter here instead of Couturier). Factor in that Couturier was taking KEY faceoffs for most of the year, versus being a 4th / 5th option like Carter and I would venture carters win % lessons. To make it worse, that number goes down when comparing minny mouse Briere to Carter. So, I have to say that we need to dispell the thought that we missed Carters faceofs.

I like carter and am not on the he is horrible, garbage wagon like some. However, he is pretty much mediocre come playoff time. Granted, much of that playoff time he has had some ailment or another. I think my point was that Richard and Carter as leaders on Philly do not win the cup. On your points, sure the hat trick was relevant. It gave LA breathing room while Quick pitched the shutout. If you take the Hattrick game and the clinching game out of the mix, that puts him at 3g, 5A for 8pts and a -2 over the other 18 playoff games he played (and 20 hits and 8blocked shots if we want to look at his play away from the puck). Certainly not horrible, but not what I would call a primary cog. He is what he is. A .5 ppg player in the playoffs and one who can not handle the defensive tightness that comes with the playoff game.

I am not allowed to be lazy and just click agree for the day. So, I agree. @jammer2 and I both lamented right away about that deal / draft.

Richards and Carter are both very good players. The reality is that hey BOTH are / were second fiddle for LA. Put Quick and Doughty on our team with Richards and Carter as SECOND fiddles and odds are we win the cup too. Oh and those EIGHT effing goals by carter- 3 came in one game and those three not one was a game winner. So, in 19 games, he had 5 goals. Hmmm.....over an NHL season that projects to 21 goals. Not at you, but to everyone, lets not have a wet dream about Carter- because he was not all that and a bag of chips for LA.

And Vezina winning goalie. Love Henrique, but Quick is going to get it.

Um, Bobs is MORE proven than Lindback and two years younger. Philly could get him on an offer sheet and I will guarantee you that offer sheet will cost allot less than the draft picks and prospects.

Really?? With 7 other players including Giroux and Briere. Not to mention that of his 8 goals, 3 came in one game. I am not a Carter hater, but lets not suck his nob. He was meaningless in 2/3 of the playoffs.

And thus allot of people do not notice what he does well- except other teams GM's and scouts.

Salvador from NJ at 35 y/o is a UFA. Just saying.

Carle at 4.25m or Suter at 6.5m? Really?? Suter is good, but a Carle / Kimonen hibrid.

For that money, I would do it in a heart beat- and you are right that he is a bit of a whipping boy and better than most give him credit for.

f u c k you sheep -whatever you are with sheep. Where is Jack??

No surgery- and JVR said how much he loves the Flyers, team and management.

He is still hammerred. Pretty funny.