Vanflyer

@Mad Dog Don't be so bummed. We need a good RW. The Doan / Phoenix situation is still up in the air. Doan is a born Flyer, but if the Phoenix thing gets resolved, he will re-sign there. If not, I bet my house he will be a Flyer. Carle- ok. He will do what he is going to do. The thing that most are over-looking is Weber. What does he want. It is THIS summer that his truck is backing up, not next. Truthfully, Nashville will sign him- and they have their normal cupboard full full of up and coming defensemen. So what, lets just play the kids. Truthfully, I don't care. I like the kids allot. If Breezy can get on the Vodka or whatever he needs to play well, then do it. This will be the year that annoints Homer as very astute or very stupid. Just remember that Dallas lost their last 5 games of the season to let LA sneek in. We all piss and moan about the cap management on this team and for once we are in a position to pay- but aren't. Their is a core of studs on this team that are very young. We need a vet or two to help along (a doan would be HUGE). Outside of that, nothing. Let the kids play.

Pitts will be the same as the Flyers- status quo. Its actually ok. There is no need to waste money this summer for either team. Both teams need a couple of players. Doan is going to get PAID if Phoenix is unstable (I think that date is 7-7). You guys don't need a RW as much as we do. If we get Doan, look the eff out!!!. Carle will do what he is going to do (an probably re-sign with the Flyers). That is all we REALLY need to do. How Pitts- what do you REALLY need to do??

Man, is everyone selling Poile way short. I will say this again: - if Weber does not sign a mid range contract this summer, his RFA rights will be traded. There is no way Nashville signs him to a 1 year deal only to have limited trading partners at the trade deadline during the season. It is going to be all in or all out THIS summer for Weber. I am very stupid, so someone please correct me on why anything different would happen.

As soon as the Phoenix "situation" is established, Doan will either be a Flyer or a Coyote. After that, there is nothing. Truthfully, I am ok with that. Even the Carle situation. There is the Nash thing, but, I don't want to gut the team to get him.

Thank effing god. 7.5m per player for the rest of their playing lives. A third to last -49 gf / ga differential will not change on that team with an added 14.5m additional cap hit. I think Parise made a good choice. He could not go to another East coast team- I respect that. As far as Suter goes- who gives a f u c k? Now the problem is the Flyers need a 1-2 RW. I can't see Voracek on the top line (well I could). At the end of the day, I am very happy. I would have never paid Jagr more than 3.5 (despite his market value). I would have been sick to pay EITHER (suter or parise) of those guys 7.5 m. What I am REALLY happy about is that Minn is in the Western Conference. Not that I think that Minnesotta will be a monster team, but more because I would want the Flyers to run Suter every chance they got. We also win because Pitts did not get Parise.

Actually, if you took a pool, I would venture 80% would say he was money hungry. Go read all the posts. The Flyers left him no "outs". Tendering dual offers to Suter and Parise told Jagr everything he needed to know about the Flyers intentions regarding him. Maybe he asked for too much. Who knows. I think the market for him was 4m. He had a "try out year" with Philly after his 3 KHL years. I think 4m was too rich for the Flyers. There is nothing wrong with that. But for people to blast away on multiple threads that JJ is all about money (especially at this point of his career), is a bit laughable to me. Dallas? Shocking- sure. I think it was Dallas-Detroit bidding war for him. Dallas had / has 25% more cap room (both teams have ALLOT). To protect him at this point is a bit funny for me. But reading all the stuff about him in "the room" and "off ice", I admire and respect him. He is a multi millionaire and star in his homeland. .5m - 1m here or there does not mean that much. People saying he is way over paid make me laugh. They are the same people calling for Hartnells head two year ago. Wait and see how Hartnell does this year without a big body winger taking up space and freeing Giroux to wheel and deal.

@radoran I'm just saying that anyone that thinks he is a money hungry d i c k is foolish. The Flyers eff'd him (while we don't know the behind the scenes). There is nothing that is as black and white is all I'm saying. We pay Hartnell 4.1m a year for a long time for 60 points a year. He had a career year in half part to Jagr. He won't sniff those numbers again. He wil go back to being a 25-25 guy at 4.1m. It just amazes me people want to bust JJ balls saying he is money hungry. The FLYERS are the ones that said "we like you allot, but let us see what we can do in the UFA market". Now everyone is on the JJ is money hungry and this that and the other. If Hartnell puts up 55 / 60 points at 4.1M, what is the difference with JJ?? I mean let us look at valuation. I tried to do it, but everyone on this board for the most part is trashing Jagr. I can't wait until I here the great stories about his contribution, work ethic etc. out of dallas. The guy got paid .5m more than he should have. Nothing more and nothing less. But he will sell seats in Dallas, and jerseys. So you might snicker at the .5m extra, but those seats and jerseys will wash it out.

Hey Jammer- Great post. I am far from a JJ apologist, but I can't digest the dissent on the board for him signing a 4.5m contract. The "train wreck" you mentioned will be the straw of which we will all judge. I will remind everyone that if Dallas had not tanked (lost their last 5 games), LA would have not have been in the playoffs. What he did in Philly was tremendous (off ice). Nothing I ever expected. People should shut about him being "money hungry". Dallas offense will be better, but a bit tired at the end of the year. Their defense has not improved at all. Lehtonen had a great year last year. If he performs the same way, the extra 12 goals will get them in the playoffs.

@OzFlyer Who is offerring Suter 8m? The Flyers and Detroits offers are both 7m, with Detroits being a year longer (12y v 13 y). The part we don't know is how much SALARY is front loaded. I doubt either team cares all that much about that (well, perhaps the Flyers since Breezy will get half of his salary in his first 3 years). Valuation aside, both teams have very deep pockets. I always think it is funny how people bash Philly. Have you ever been to Detroit?? It is no paradise, bitter cold in the winter, etc. What they have is a great hockey organization. The Flyers have a great hockey organization as well. Nashville has a great hockey organization too. For players that have families, the locale is equally as important as the quality of the organization. Suter is not going to get 8m. He will get 6.5 - 7m depending on what he considers important. The thing with Weber is not only how much are you going to pay, but how much are you going to decimate your team (prospects included). I keep reading how everyone thinks they can throw money at Weber next year. I do not get that. He is a RFA NOW. If anyone thinks that Nashville is either not going to sign him mid to long term now or jettison him NOW, they are foolish. Poile WILL NOT sign him to a one year deal to leave him as a UFA next year.

Go read my post regarding why I think he signed there. If you want to talk about loyalty, if was the Flyers who were not loyal to him (on the surface at least). Also, look at the comparables I posted on guys who scored his same amount of points this year (and those that are a couple above). It ranges- depending on experience, from low 3's to 6m. 4m is what I think was a fair open market price. I would have expected less for the opportunity for him to return to playing with giroux. I don't think this is Jagr being greedy or not being loyal to the Flyers. It is him looking for a situatino where he will be in the prime time light and paid. He could not sit and wait for the Flyers to figure out the Suter / Parise situation while other teams were spending their available UFA dollars. It is ludricrous to expect him to do that. If the Flyers sign just Parise, Jagr would have been out of their picture. So if it takes Parise the rest of the July 4th holiday to figure things out while playing on the lakes in Minnesota, and other teams are making their moves to sign key available UFA's, then Parise decides on the Flyers- what is Jagr supposed to do? He would be on the outside looking in for a team that he feels would fit. I also have a feeling that 4.5 was a bidding war between Detroit and Dallas.

Everyone keeps writing "go after Weber next year" type of stuff. There must be something I am totally missing here. He currently is a RFA. Poile is a very astute GM. There is no way in hell he signs Weber for only 1 year and allow him to be on the market next summer. He could do the tradeline thing, but that would handcuff him to the number of teams that he could negotiate with. If he can't get a 4-5 year / long term deal out of him, if I am Poile, I move his rights as a RFA to another team and backup the truck at Nashvilles doorsteps with a ton of assets.

Man you and @flyerrod are both really cynical.What you are suggesting is that he has fallen back on his days of old and only cares about money and himself and the least amount of effort he needs to put forward. I don't see that. I don't think last year was a mirage in his work ethic. In fact, I have ALWAYS known him to be a fitness freak, back to his pittsburgh days. Maybe that did not translate onto the ice (particularly with Washington and NYR), but I do not get the sense the he is just out for a free lunch ticked to ride into the sunset of the NHL. Afterall, he could get twice the money in the KHL and play around 50 or so games (his average over the three seasons in the KHL 51.5). The skill is less than the NHL- so easier for him to play, etc. I did not put this on my initial post, but Kari Lehtonen is a far cry from Bryzgalov. I just struggle with Dallas, because I still find their defense very suspect (not withstanding Lehtonen). I guess nieuwyndyke thinks that more firepower up front will win him more games. Keep in mind that Dallas choked on the chicken bone the last five games of the year (lost 5 in a row). Had they won 3 of those, LA would not have made the playoffs and Dallas would have been the 8th seed in the west.

I just think the value return would have been much higher. It would have allowed Jordan to slot into the #2 center, place a quality checking center on your third line (for far less than 6m- say 3M) balance your payroll and obtain some really quality assets to round out the team and continue growing. As it is now, 8 players (4f, 3d and 1g- 34% of your roster), take up 62% of your cap space. In contrast, the flyers have 11 players (5d, 4f, 1g- 48% of our roster), take up 64% of our cap space. While the Flyers have never been the model for cap management, they are moving towards that- thanks in large part to the trades of last year and moving JVR this year.

I think injuries hampered him towards the end. I am not so sure I would look at this necessarily as money grubbing. Afterall, he turned down more money last year from two other teams to play for the Flyers. Here is what I think happened. With the contract offers to BOTH Suter and Parise, that left nothing for Jagr. I don't think the Flyers expected BOTH of those guys to sit with there thumbs up their asses for a few days to decide on what they want to do. Even if the Flyers were hedging their bets, in the event that both agreed, Jagr was gone. In the event that Parise agreed, Jagr was gone (as Carle and Voracek still need to be signed). So, the Flyers sent a clear message to Jagr on the direction they were pursuing. At that point, then Jagr is on the open market and has to pursue what is a good fit for him. He still wants to be a prime time guy. So perhaps you had a Detroit / Dallas bidding war and Jagr decided that Dallas was the better fit for him with the personnel they have. He still was a .73 ppg player last year. That projects to 60 points over the course of the year. That would tie him with Corey Perry, who makes 5.3m a year. As it is, his 54 points were tied by the following (at RW): Ryan Callahan- 4.275M Kris Verseeg- 3M (but RFA this year) Dustin Brown- 3.175M Alexander Semin- 6M (contract before that was 4.55m) TJ Oshie- 2.35M (RFA this year) You then look at guys like Franzen (4M), Justin Williams (3.65M) and Martin Erat (4.5M) who all put up just a couple points more than Jagr this year and you can see how a 4.55m pay day came down. For me, I think the fair market for him was probably around 4M. I throw in the other .5m for bidding "star" power and all that. In the end, I don't really think he was money grubbing. What does surprise me is that I thought he would seek out a two year deal in the high 3's-4m range.

Man do you ride him hard! Game 1- Staal assisted on the Pits 1st goal (to make it 1-1), was on the ice for a PPG by PHI and was on the ice for the EN goal. He finished the game 1a and even. Game 2- Staal was on the ice for Pits second goal (to make it 2-2), was then on the ice for a PPG by PHI, was on the ice for a EV goal by Phi, was on the ice for the 5th goal by pits (which made it 5-4 pits at the time), was on the ice for Jagrs goal and then the first EN goal (does not count towards minus). He finished the game with and 1a and -1. The goats for me that game were Kunitz (-5) and Malkin (-4). Game 3- He scores the first goal. Then is on the ice for a Flyers SHG AND PPG. Is on the ice for Phillys second PPG. Scores Pits next goal (EV), on the ice for Phillys last PPG. He finished the game 2g +1. That also was the goon game. Maybe you can blame some of his special teams play, but in those three games, He had 2g, 2a and was even. Considering the Flyers tatooed 20 goals on the PEN in the first three games, that is still pretty darn good. Want me to tell you about Neal, Kunitz and Malkin the first three games??

Playing with your older brother has to hold certain merit too. I would think the third fiddle had become enough for him. Truthfully, I don't blame him, but think that Pittsburgh traded the wrong center.

What's Parise' current number? I love the player, but there are only a few guys in the league I am paying BIG bucks too. In addition to that, I think a sizeable wing for Giroux (ala) nash would be a bigger priority. Yet, I am a cheap bastard and don't want to give up any of our assets (aside from this years draft class).

You think Suter is 2-2.25m than Carle? Suter has played 70 more games than Suter, but beats Suter in virtually every statistical category for their careers. The only one that he does not is points and they are seperated by 36 points over 70 games difference (about Carle's average). You folks are blowing smoke so far up Suter's rear end it is not even funny- mostly because the lynch mob mentality is out for two things: 1) Dislike of Carle 2) Change for changes sake alone (damn becoming cap responsible). If someone could convince me some how that having Suter instead of Carle would win us say 8 more games directly because of Suters elevated play, I could possibly start to be swayed. How about 5 games??

I just can't resist sticking my nose into this one! 2011-2012 Shots on Goal: Matt Carle- 134 (let the Flyers on Shots on Goal, followed closely by Timmonen) Ryan Suter- 134 Dennis Wideman- 175

Really? I thought his open market was around 5.2 - 5.5 and all us armchair GM' here thought he would give us a home town discount (say 5). I would have rather had Erik Johnson over both (though he has not really done much with all his injuries and post trade to Colorado).

Good point. For me personally, I hate coming out of my zone on the off wing. As you pointed out, there are also defensive things that are tougher (ie. clearing the puck out, etc.). The only thing Leclair could do on his back hand is lift the puck in the net if he was 3 feet away- otherwise it was a dying quail.

How about 5.25m to Carle v. 7M to Suter? For me personally, I just can not rationalize 1.75m "better" in Suter vs. Carle. Better, sure. But nearly 2m better, um no.

Sadly you can not renegotiate contracts in the NHL and with the CBA unkown, you would want to wait before signing Giroux to an extension (of which not a dime he will see until his current contract is up).

While I agree somewhat, I also think that players have preferences. Some guys like having their stick towards the (ie shooting off wing) and are willing to sacrifice some things for it. I guess if it was that interchangeable, why wouldn't it be more prevelant in the NHL??