Vanflyer

I guess, but was he really overpaid at the start? I guess you could say at the time, but still, he was a 25 / 50 / 150 Pims guy his first two years. I don't remember what the market was for 25/50 winger guys at that time, but it sounds reasonable to me at 4M. His last two years are also 25 / 50 (on average). He definitely had a career year last year, but that has allot to do with Jagr and Giroux. His stripes have not changed that much. The biggest difference with him now is that he takes far less lazy / stupid penalties. Where does the 6M figure come from?? I don't see that at all. What I see is 4.5M with the Flyers for another 4 years. I don't see hartnells skill set having value or quality beyond another 4 years. I do think that he is a quality guy and has "grown-up" allot during his tenure as a Flyer. I could give him a 5 or 6 year contract, but I would drop the cap hit down to 3.6 and front load the salary as you have suggested. The problem for me is that I am not sure he is effective on a third line role (which would be the last two years IMO). So, do you do 4 years at 4.5 cap or 5/6 years at 3.7 ish?? I think he really likes it in Philly- and the fans have really embraced him. That goes a long way. It is funny with fans, once you have won them over, they will like you forever- even when you deteriorate on your skills. He is a philly type of guy in that he is kind of a misfit pro. You look at his all-star appearance where he was embarrassed to even go. The "Hartnelldown" thing he created was excellent. Even fans outside of Philly embraced that. Can he get "paid" elsewhere- sure. But outside of the oppurtunity to get a ring, why??

I chuckled when I read that. The guy played ONE nhl season and he is ready for a break-out year. Seriously, I know what you mean. Schenn had a hard luck story season. Not as bad as JVR, but similar. I do agree that I think we are going to see why that trade was made. Simmonds was the "throw" in on that deal and Schenn was the jewel of the crown. I think this year we are going to see exactly why.

That was funny! But shouldn't we say bears can change their colors?? Their has to be either a bear or husky reference somewhere that would fit!

@jammer2 That is the problem. We put these guys under a microscopes and dissect every little thing and forget to look at the bigger picture. It is a good thing that 99% of us are not a GM for the Flyers (or any team for that matter), because our rationality is so skewed by our fandom. As fans, paying ones at that (one way or another- we all pay), it is our luxury and prerogative to do so. Yet in doing so, we become myopic in our views. Hartnell has been exactly as billed and had a disastrous (not life and death, but still) personal life situation that got carried onto the ice. With Briere, there are only two words I have to say when ever his "value" comes up: Gomez / Drury. I was in the Drury camp that summer. That said, Briere has turned out to be the greatest value by a mile. I also think he has become a BETTER hockey player. When we signed him, he was one dimensional and that dimension was from the red line forward. He will never be a selke finalist, but he does play 180 feet now and not just 60 feet. He too had off ice issues that he had to move through. And you are right, a tiger can change their stripes.

Interesting first post. WE welcome you.

Oh come on Polaris. That is EXTREMELY weak. Games Played: Fleury- 67 Mike Smith- 67 Jonathan Quick- 69 Pekka Rinne- 73 I could list more, but those are the goalies that were in the playoffs. Fleury was 8th overall in games played. Did he play allot, sure. But so did allot of other goalies.

You know that is quite a problem now. I am not sure who posted it or what the origin was, but there was something on the FA not wanting to come to Philly thread where there was a reference to player X (if forget who) not wanting to come to Philly because of Bryzgalov. After all our years of mediocre goaltending, to have players openly say they don't want to come to philly because of a particular goalie is pretty appalling.

I know isn't that funny? I am impressed you remembered I was chatting him up early on. Considering I don't get to watch Juniors like I used to be able to (since I am not in Canada or in the NW anymore), the ONE guy I see and am able to watch gets a bullet next to his name. You are right about the Islanders. I really feel bad for them. So many years of ineptness at both the owner and GM level and yet despite all that, they are getting some good drafts. The county of Long Island is pretty rich- yet they gave a big middle finger to the islanders on a new arena- which the team desperately needs. I remember the days of Bossy, Potvin, Billy smith (who was the pre-cursor to Hextall when it came to goalie nastiness). How the mighty have fallen so far!! I find myself rooting for the Islanders because of so many years of losing. Of the three NY teams (NYR, Devils, Islanders), they are my favorite if there is such a thing.

People really knock Hartnell. Of all the signings that Homer has made, this the one that has come closest to the bullseye. Two years ago, people were pissed because Hartnell was playing like an idiot (his skating was atrocious and he was incessantly taking idiotic / lazy penalties). But that was only one year. If you look at his body of work as a Flyer, he is exacly as billed (on average he is a 25 / 50 guy). This is why I kind of chuckle when people say Jagr got way overpaid in Dallas. He got paid 500k too much. The median for 25 / 50 guys is around 4m- especially when they are playing 18m a night. As far as the sports writer part goes, they have gone by the way of the dinasaur- because of the internet, with some slim exceptions (guys like Meltzer). Truthfully, I think 2/3 of this forum could write more intelligent hockey articles than 90% of the beat writers- and that is WITHOUT having "sources" or hanging out at the rink on a regular basis.

On many pre-draft projections, I counted no less than 30 d-men in the top 60 picks. I would have like the Flyers to have drafted at least one. This was the year of the D when it comes to drafts.

Or wait for guys like Weber to develop so we can trade half the team to get him.

Not sure if anyone saw this, but if would be fun to go to an NHL draft: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=635580 I am not going to Newark to see one, but I would certainly go to Philly to watch it.

I agree with your whole message and thought the same and was gong to post it as well (ie. take the offers off the table and tell them both to eff of). Timmonen and Hartnell were both UFA's via the Forsberg trade- in a long route. Just saying.

ding ding ding. We have a winner. What a pisser.

Me too. I would do it for the rest of his career as well- even as an +35 player. The guy was a beast for Phoenix ALL last year AND in the playoffs. I think I saw one game where he played 27 minutes- as a effing forward!!! I respect his loyalty to Phoenix, but man- what a great player. We all gush over B. Ryan, but I would take Doan over Ryan- especially when no assets would be involved. Hartnell or X + Giroux + Doan would be lethal Doan is GREAT on the PK as well.

Funny! I thought it might be Kuato, but Kuato LOVES Breezy!!. My mistake!!

Plus Doan is more dynamic than Jagr (ie. can play in all situations). That is not a knock on Jagr either, but for dollar to dollar- you may not get the same points with Doan, but he does 10 other things that you don't get with Jagr that does not show up on the score sheet.

Even with 44 wins- that is 88 points. Is Leighton going to get us 7 wins? This is a write-off year. We will have allot of money next year (and still have allot for this year). Sign Voracek and get the role players. No biggie. Hello Schenn's, Simmonds, Read, Voracek, Harry, etc. You boys are going to get to play allot!!

Pinnochio is about as reliable as Ecklund. The offer was 12/80 for each maybe a tad more. If you want to believe that ****** (closet pittsburgh fan), go read his "twitter". My 13 y/o niece speaks more inteligently than him on her menstruation. WTF. What a effing pansy. https://twitter.com/#!/tpanotchCSN

No problem. I am just pissed because @DaGreatGazoo pigeons have not picked up his case of rum I bought for him yet!

Interesting point. I never looked at it that way (regarding trade deadline). On the salary- 3.3 was a tryout salary. 4m is market. If only the Phoenix thing would fall through the floor and we could go after Doan. Would you pay 4.5m - 5m for Doan for 3 years?? I would. It would be overpaying, but worth it.

I never heard the 100m from the flyers. I heard 12 /80. The Red Wings put 13 / 90 on the table. It was all a smoke screen anyway. The whole "less under a microscope" stuff is a load of crap. I don't care if you are playing in the north pole. When you sign a 13y / 100m contract you WILL be under the microscope. To infer that it would be less so in Minnesota than Philly is a joke. Minnesota is HOCKEY crazed state. He will actually be MORE under the microscope there. Go Gophers! ha ha

Has Weber said that? All the things in late spring was that he really wanted to stay in Nashville. Even if Poile has to move him if their is an impasse- teams will line up in the bidding war for just his rights. If you want a case study- just go look at the Nash situation. He has made it perfectly clear he wants to play elsewhere. Regardless of signed or unsigned- both situations are the same and look at all the "rumored" offers being made for Nash.

@B21 Another quality post. I do think the Flyers overachieved last year. While saying that, I also think they overcame tremendous adversity with injuries that allowed allot of kids to play allot more minutes than they would have. 1) I don't think Read is a flash in the pan. He ran out of gas for sure, otherwise he would have been a Calder finalist (and probably should have been anyway). I expect him to elevate his game even more this year. 2) B. Schenn- Good points. He had a injury riddled year. I do expect him to put 40+ points this year. 3) Courturier- His role was shut down the hole way. You have to keep in mind that he scored 103 points not once, but twice in Juniors- WHILE playing his defensive game. His role last season was not to be a scorer. But make no mistake, he is a stud. He is TWO times the player that J. Staal is (and you know I like J. Staal). I expect 40+ points from him this year. 4) Briere- He is an enigma to me. He needs certain types of line mates to be successful. Also, throughout his career, after and "off" year he has a good year. The thing is that he has become much more defensively responsible than his early years. I expect 60 points of him this year- IF he can get a good pairing on his line. 5) Hartnell- I don't think he will get the goals again. I see him getting 55 pts this year. It is a contract year for him- and his personal life has been cleaned up. He has matured and knows what he needs to do to be successful now. He was one of the guys that really benefitted from Jagr. He was working out with Jagr in the gym AFTER games. The goals will dip a bit- depending on how the RW is filled on that line. 6) Simmonds- I think he is only going to get better. He was the diamond in the rough on the Richards trade. If he can add about 5lbs of muscle, he will be a great 2nd line winger. I expect his numbers to be the same. 7) Talbot- He was the benefit of the depth on forward of the Flyers. He may drop back down to 15g-or less, but the others above will carry that difference. 8) Voracek- I think you are selling him WAY short. I don't think he is a good combo with Giroux, but he is most definitely going to be top RW material either this year or next. He is going to progress this year. I see 55 points from him. I am not worried about the offensive points as much as I am needing a sizeable winger to play with Giroux that can finish. Voracek could be that guy, but their skills overlap too much (on the set-up side) for my liking. The negative to Voraceks game (and the only one I have) is he does not have a good shot AND is ALWAYS a pass first guy. Giroux needs guys on his wing that will finish. So, we come full circle to Ryan. JVR and Bobsky were the guys to get that deal done. I could maybe give B. Schenn up, but I am not so sure. What I truly think is that even with Ryan THIS year, the Flyers don't win the cup. With Doan- they have a shot- only because they don't have to give up Schenn. We need two wings with some size and a 3/4 dman. Corey Perry is going to look GREAT in O&B NEXT year. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for nothing. Ryan is a really nice player and home town kid, but I will take Perry 7 days a week and twice on Sunday over him as a UFA while retaining my assets.

Well, they can always do something, but that something will cost assets that need to be replaced. No Nash, no Ryan, no Weber. The upside is that we have over 30M in cap space to spend next year! ha ha P.S. Both Minnesota and Tampa will not make the playoffs. I am accepting tokens for a wager on either or both and will lay odds to those that are willing to bet.