Vanflyer

We never had the goaltending or d to sustain that kind of run (sc champions). Allot of people think that Carter / Richards did not have much to do with the first cup. They did. They had allot. Not as much as Kopitar / Brown / Doughty / Quick, but with those other guys in front of them, it allowed the Kings to come in waves on both sides of the ice. LA already had the infrastructure in place. They just needed to fill some wholes. In Philly, Carter and Richards WERE the infrastructure and not the hole fillers. A big difference. Additionally, Girioux has evolved into a top 5 centermen in the league just by sheer subtraction of Richards. Richards is a workhorse. He has skills, but they are not elite skills. Allot of his accomplishment comes from his effort. As his career has progressed, it seems that work is taking a tool on him. At the end of the day: Carter= Couturier (21 y/o), Voracek (24 y/o) Richards= Schenn (22 y/o), Simmonds (25 y/o), Grossman Its hard to say your club has missed an opportunity when one was not really there. By trading two spots, 5 were filled. Not just filled with vet journeymen players, but promising young players. The goalie situation seems to have been solved with Mason. Now d and a winger need to be addressed. These were holes when Carter and Richards were here as well. But at that time we only had one and a 1/2 formidable lines. We are close to rolling three very formidable lines and possibly four (not sure about the VLC stuff and where that will land).

I completely disagree with the Bobs comment. He needed to go NOWHERE. It was only because of Bryz he was sent away (so whomever in management could save egg on their face). Bobs was loved by his teammates and coaching and often praised. Its also known that Bryz and Bobs did not get along. Imagine that, the enormously hard working, friendly down to earth goalie not getting along with the eccentric space cadet. Sadly, the Flyers banked their future on the eccentric space cadet and needed to save face. By by Bobs.

I can handle that, I just don't want to see another picture of carter and richards holding hands walking down the beach with the cup again. That will make me barf.

True (and funny). Call Polaris to see if anyone can find "prime time" Kane, Sharpe, or Hossa.

Well, not so fast. Ovie has a NTC that kicks in July 1 this year. While he might be shown the door, it will not be without cause to the team. That is not to say that Ovie does not decide to lift his NTC or "retire" and go to KHL (is that permissible under current CBA?). As you and I discussed, just move him now. Nashville is the premiere landing spot for him because Lavy will give him tons of latitude to play his style and Renne has the ability to save their bacon when Ovie is being well Ovie on the defensive 100ft of ice. LA would be interesting, but I just can't see Lombardi or Suter wanting anything to do with the stench that is coming out of Ovie currently. Nashville REALLY needs a marquee name / splash for the offensive side of their team. They shed a local hero in Trotz, brought in a run and gun coach and now they need a marquee run and gun player to complete the trifecta. I wonder if Ovie likes gritz?

Pass the popcorn please.

Quality of puck bunnies. Sorry, I just could not resist. :-P

Want to see a hijacked thread (i know there is one here somewhere, but I just can't resist)? Or its like Jon Sim and <insert>, some things are just forever tied together.

Not to stir the pot (ok, well I will). Hate the rehash of a topic when there is nothing new to be said/stated. But there is actually allot to be said about the players current status. I will generally follow ex-flyers regardless of my admiration or disdain for them. To your point, if the posts topic were to rehash the value of the trades again, that is idiotic to me given that the postmortem has been done adnauseum. I am perfectly fine with both trades and I think the return in value was substantial and the Flyers won on both counts. Nail in coffin and close the door. The nature of the beast will always predicate that that coffin / door gets opened from time to time just to play would of / could of / should of. In this instance, it does not make any sense to do any of those regardless of how many rings Ritchie / Carter might wear. The reality is that it was never going to happen here (IMO). Past is past.

I wonder if Gustafson is re-thinking his signing??? hmmmmm

Damn, someone lost a bet and owes the russian mob ALLOT of money!!! Seriously, wow.

I agree with that. Add in the length of the contract and amount, and it becomes a nauseating problem for any team.

Interesting. I guess if Ovie can land and play well anywhere, LA would be it (given they are a defense first team and have a world class goalie). Since Trotz is the new coach in Washington, perhaps Ovie would not be reluctant to such a move. Money wise, it looks as if it could actually work. Interestingly, Ovaries NTC does not kick in until July 1 2014 this year. So, he would have no say in it (though I would think he would be ecstatic to go to a SC winner / contender. Especially where he did not have to be THE man. Its just could his ego handle it?

I think Richards still has value. Ice time is earner under Suter, but perhaps Richards needs a change a scenery where he can be a bigger man on campus to reignite himself. He is playing 3rd / 4th fiddle down the middle most nights. To your point on salary, its high for a 15 min a night guys- especially when you look at his production at both ends of the ice. I guess the question would be where would be a good landing spot for him? Columbus? (ah the irony!!) :-) On Carter, yeah, what a whinny silver spoon kid. The thing is that he has always had allot of the tools. I watched him AHL calder and he a beast (along with Richards). For whatever reason, for the Flyers he seemed to want to coast and play perimeter hockey. With his size and skating, very frustrating. For some reason the hockey gods are smiling on him.

I mean this in all seriousness, he would be great in Nashville. Ah, the irony. If the Caps could move him for a d prospect or two, call it a done deal.

And to boot, Richards was the supposed better player. Like the player, but he is not as near as good as he used to be. Reminds me of the Drury decline. Richards has not had an easy go of it there, especially under suter. He struggles to find a line home. At the end of the day, I will take a 22 y/o Schenn, 25 y/o Simmonds and D man grossman any day of the week for Richards. Carters game has changed immensely (at least of what I have watched in the playoffs). he goes to the dirty areas (I see him in the corners digging for pucks and not in a half effort attempt, standing in front of the net scoring goals, PASSING, and back checking). I think at the time we gave up both players it was a cross roads and there should be know would have / could have / should have regarding those two. I still believe that Philly won both of those trades. Also, anyone that anchors those two trades as the "must win now" because those two may win another cup, is sadly mistaken. Those trades were made to change many things and one of the biggest was to get younger as a down stream effect to the trades. Sprinkle in some deficiencies in goaltending from universeman, an underperforming (by some JVR) and add into that a run and gun system with little solidfication to break on and coverage on the defensive side and you have what you have.

I don't watch much wings games, so you would know better than me. Yet, don't you think you are being a bit extreme? The index I generally use regarding goalies is sv pctg. Howards sv pctg during the regular season was pedestrian (but not the worst). Given the mammoth amount of injuries Detroit had, that could be excusable. His save pctg in previous years was upper echelon (top 5). This year in the playoffs, his sv pctg was stellar (.931). Detroit just ran into a better team and while Howard was good Rask was superior. If you look at the money Howard makes and look at comparables and stats, Howard is right there. I know the grass is always greener, but I think with a healthy Detroit club, Howard is perfectly fine. If not Howard, who would you want??

Loaded question. 1) Sharp is for sure wish we had a redo. 2) JVR- needed a trade of scenery (but boy would love to have him as a LW now). The jury is still out on that regardless of his production in Toronto. Schenn could develop into a solid 3 / 4 guy on d and we needed that. 3) Richards- Meh. His best days where in Philly. Nice player, but I'll keep Schenn (b) and Simmonds. 4) J. Williams - most definitely would want to undo that. We got danny markov in that trade and needed him. I really liked him, despite his smoking a pack of cigs and drinking a bottle of vodka a day. Yet, Williams should have been kept. 5) Carter- he had to go. It was time. I think he just needed the right coach and that Suter is it for him. He is playing in areas he never played in for the Flyers or Columbus. Had he done that, he would have never been traded by either team. I love Voracek and Couturier. No regrets. (agree he is playing like a stud).

You should have heard the CBC announcers just railing about how late that hit was (accurately so). The suspension now tells every player in the league that 3-4 strides after the puck is played to hit a player is okay (and I don't mean glide). Like I said in another post, that hit makes Kornhole look like a saint. The fact that you and I (and others here) as Flyers fans whom despise the Rangers are adamant about the hit / suspension speaks volumes.

:wub:

No flyer d-man logs "big minutes". Not Shea Weber / Doughty / Keith / Suter type minutes. Kimmo played 20:19 minutes a game during the regular season. The top TOI dman for the Flyers was Couburn at 22:26. In the playoffs, Kimmo played 20:11 minutes a game, with MacD leading the team at 22:36 minutes per game. You are correct regarding ES. Kimmo already sees less ES time. He plays 1/3 of the minutes I cited on PP / PK. I am not sure if that is by design or the fact that he is better than other players on special teams (short handed minutes are harder than even strength minutes). But to complete my thought regarding you post, if he plays those same minutes next year, there is no reason in the world why he should not get 4-4.5m. 6.5m, no. 4-4.5 yes. @Samifan suggested 2-2.5m was his value. If I open up negotiations with Kimmo and that is my initial offer, I say eff you and am gone. Many teams would pay 4m+ for Kimmo- even at age 39. He is finnish and they have a long history of longevity. He has lost half a step, but is extremely smart and extremely skilled. He is no Hal Gill / Grossman.

So, 2-2.5M is what top pairing / 2nd PP unit d-men make these days?? Seriously, if that is where he is going to play, 4-4.5 is what he should get paid. Do a 1 year contract at a time deal.

Hey OR: I don't see Amac as a 1/2 pairing guy. Additionally, I think Amac makes Schenn better. I would keep that pairing. Truthfully, it has less to do with pairing v. who do you want the tandem to play against. The pairing has more to do with who does "X" compliment / play well with "Y". The biggest thing for Kimmo is how do you get his minutes down so he can sustain. Couburn is in his prime and should chew up big minutes. Kimmo can't handle that. MacD / Schenn can, but I am not sure that skill set of each is worthy of it. There is 60 minutes of ice time to be chewed up between three sets of dmen with a rotating 7th. You need one of those pairs ("top pairing to) to eat 23-24 of those minutes, your second pairing 19 -21 minutes and your last the remainder (15-17). Lastly, I am not so sure its about minutes per game as much as games. If I was GM, I would significantly consider re-signing Kimmo at a reasonable price 4.5m. Let him stay status quo with tandem, but figure out how to give him more days off so he can endure the grind of the regular season. But that is the rub, who do I play in his place when he is resting that can bring top level skill set while having a "fill in" role?

1) For what? 2) Everyone really bashes Hartnell here. He is not fleet of foot. His contract is too long. But, he does produce and does allot of "dirty" things for the team that other guys don't do. There is also a character / personality aspect that I really like about him and think is a positive to the chemistry to the team / locker room. 3) Not sure how you package a UFA (Kimmo). Yet even if he was under contract, as a sign of respect, if he was to be moved I would move him at the trade deadline to a contender (say a Minny / Colorado team) to give him a shot at a cup for his swan song.

Fixed. Your are welcome. :-)