1) 2013-2014: Phoenix 89 pts / Ottawa 88 points 2012-2013: Phoenix 51 pts / Ottawa 56 points 2011-2012: Phoenix 97 pts / Ottawa 92 points 2010-2011: Phoenix 99 pts / Ottawa 74 points 2009-2010: Phoenix 107 pts / Ottawa 94 points Last 5 season totals: Phoenix 443 pts / Ottawa 404 pts I exaggerated the wins. My bad. The point being that you call Phoenix "blows" when in reality they are / have been competitive for a while. I get it is you don't like Ownership / management. I also get it if you don't think Hockey should be in the desert. But aside from all those detriments, the team itself is quite good (and better than ottawa the last 5 seasons. Not for nothing, but Hockey Futures has Phoenix team ranking at #12. Ottawa is ranked #19. Turris played in all 48 games last season. That is a full season too. Its great that he had a break out year. My point is is woo hoo. His 6th season in the league and he finally cracked the 20 goal marker. Lets have a party. You site PPG: 1) Kyle Turrius- Regular season> 316 gp, 162 pts> .5 ppg Playoffs> 21 gp, 15pts> .7 ppg 2) JVR- Regular season> 324 gp, 192 pts> .59 ppg Playoffs> 46 gp, 22 pts> .47 ppg Turris certainly has progressed, you can't deny that when prior to this season his highest goal production was 12 goals. The point being (coming full circle) is that Turris / JVR are pretty even production wise. I will give credence to Turris because he is a center (a more difficult position than Wing). I will aslo acknowledge that he is a better two-way player. Value wise, I think they are equal when all things are put into play. Nothing more, nothing less. The Flyers did not need a center- thus got JVR. While Phoenix may have mishandled Turris, I can't see the Flyers doing any better. The fans would have been clamoring for Turris to play on the big club and it would have ended with equal disastrous results and probably worse because the fan base would have chewed Turris up and spit him out alive.